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I don't believe that claim one bit. That reads like revisionist history if I've ever seen it. If there's sources that back it up, fine, but until I see pretty r

I don't believe that claim one bit. That reads like revisionist history if I've ever seen it. If there's sources that back it up, fine, but until I see pretty reasonable proof I'm going to take that as CEO grandstanding while the market is hot.

Murfalo 3y ago
What is so hard to believe? Technology evolves rapidly. I can't imagine that anyone investing big money in compute technology wouldn't have expected that.
- izacus 3y ago
  You do understand nVidia dates back to fixed pipeline accelerators for essentially some vertices and textures, right?
- Zenul_Abidin 3y ago
  Because that happened in a time when there were many players in the 90s each making their own GPUs for gaming purposes specifically. Compute was not even on the picture until things like CUDA and OpenCL came out.
  - froonly 3y ago
    Back in the late 90s, there was a project at SGI, called Bali, to make all their pipelines work in IEEE 32-bit floating point (they were using Intel i860 chips) so that they could do HW rendering of scenes written in Pixar's Renderman language. Sony copied that idea for the 1st Playstation, and then folks like NVidia & 3DLabs quickly followed suit, the idea being they would enable that functionality for games like Final Fantasy. In the early 2000s, the HPC folks realized that you could use a GPU for physics & engineering codes, and here were are 20 yrs later.
dotnet00 3y ago
You can find slides from IIRC one of their first GPUs talking about how they can be made into very capable compute accelerators. They've supported CUDA on most of their GPUs since 2007 while the competition is still struggling to put out a truly equivalent solution. Even before that they had Cg. I think it's pretty obvious that they saw the writing on the wall about the value of GPUs for massively parallel computing and actively pushed to be in the right spot for when everything took off.
- Symmetry 3y ago
  And probably they'd been at least thinking about that since the early 2000s to have it ready by then. But the claim is that they were thinking about it since their beginning in 1993, and that's the part that just seems hard to believe.
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    That's the claim Jensen has made, and while there isn't any particular evidence besides his word to go off for the founding goal, it's worth considering that between 1993 and 1998 they only put out 2 chips. The first one was quadratic primitive based (which, sounds more focused towards a future of compute applications, due to the ease of representing equations in such a form), and the second one was a last ditch effort triangle primitive chip to avoid bankruptcy after DirectX settled on triangle primitives. So I don't really think those years count for much in terms of determining what their goal was. Their release cadence only really picked up in 1998, and just 2-3 years later they had the first 'programmable' GPUs with early shaders. As such, saying that NVIDIA wasn't always aiming for GPU compute feels kinda like saying that SpaceX wasn't always aiming for feasibly reusable rocketry because it took them ~15 years to build up to their current version of it.
    - agumonkey 3y ago
      Also a funny 'existential' point to remember. You have a clean idea (doing math / quad-splines) but the market sinks it.. doesn't mean it won't be good later. It's a game of long and patient grind.
xyzzy_plugh 3y ago
Nvidia has been peddling compute for decades. They've long been selling enterprise tier cards for industrial purposes that are ill-suited to games. In many ways CUDA has been their long running attempt to break out of gaming. I'm not surprised here. They invested and invested and invested and now everyone is playing catch up while they nearly corner the market. In industry circles we've been lamenting their dominance in this area for well over a decade. Google and Apple are the only companies I see that have a shot at disrupting their market but they tend to end up navel gazing instead of burning bridges. And Nvidia has bridges with everyone. It's absolutely an industrial geopolitics mastercraft scenario. We'll be studying them for a century. Everyone has long known that the secret to unlocking the next tier of performance is solving concurrency. Look at all the advances that have made it into production in the last twenty years. But threading models only get you so far on a CPU, and programming GPUs is comparatively very difficult. Nvidia has always aimed to displace the CPU's prominence, since day one. It's horizontal scaling 101.
- bcrosby95 3y ago
  Decades is still long after the first GeForce. Before CUDA we had third parties using graphics primitives to run general purposes computing. So I'm not buying it.
- erupt7893 3y ago
  They've been peddling compute since mid-2000's, however Nvidia has been around for much longer. To the revisionist history point, I'm unfamiliar seeing any of this prior to that. Unless I'm missing something, they were very much a graphics only company competing with 3dfx, Matrox, S3, ATi, etc
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    They were founded in 1993, but until 1998 had only put out 2 chips, the first was a quadratic surface renderer that didn't sell well, and the second was a normal triangle rasterizer that saved them from bankruptcy. Then in 2001 they released the first GPU that could run code, each subsequent generation expanding on that capability until they were able to do general purpose compute with CUDA.
Scene_Cast2 3y ago
They tried to do physics acceleration at one point. I think they were trying to find a niche for their DSP-style compute.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > They tried to do physics acceleration at one point Well, there is PhysX which they bought in 2008 and still have; when they bought PhysX they shifted the acceleration implementation from relying on dedicated physics accelerator hardware to GPGPU. There’s APEX which was built on top of PhysX but later discontinued. There’s FleX… “At one point” might be a slight misstatement.
nabla9 3y ago
It's not hard to believe. The idea that future of computing is related to parallel numerical computing and linear algebra (HPC, graphics ,scientific computing, data science, machine learning) predates current deep learning boom. Already in 2003 and GPGPU (General-purpose computing on graphics processing units) was a thing. OpenVidia came out in 2003.
agumonkey 3y ago
I'm 50/50 on this. I don't think they ever envisioned (npi) that gaming would grow that much and would allow them to pivot back into GPU based HPC. That said they might always had a dream hinting at this.

Murfalo 3y ago

What is so hard to believe? Technology evolves rapidly. I can't imagine that anyone investing big money in compute technology wouldn't have expected that.

izacus 3y ago
You do understand nVidia dates back to fixed pipeline accelerators for essentially some vertices and textures, right?
Zenul_Abidin 3y ago
Because that happened in a time when there were many players in the 90s each making their own GPUs for gaming purposes specifically. Compute was not even on the picture until things like CUDA and OpenCL came out.
- froonly 3y ago
  Back in the late 90s, there was a project at SGI, called Bali, to make all their pipelines work in IEEE 32-bit floating point (they were using Intel i860 chips) so that they could do HW rendering of scenes written in Pixar's Renderman language. Sony copied that idea for the 1st Playstation, and then folks like NVidia & 3DLabs quickly followed suit, the idea being they would enable that functionality for games like Final Fantasy. In the early 2000s, the HPC folks realized that you could use a GPU for physics & engineering codes, and here were are 20 yrs later.

dotnet00 3y ago

You can find slides from IIRC one of their first GPUs talking about how they can be made into very capable compute accelerators. They've supported CUDA on most of their GPUs since 2007 while the competition is still struggling to put out a truly equivalent solution. Even before that they had Cg. I think it's pretty obvious that they saw the writing on the wall about the value of GPUs for massively parallel computing and actively pushed to be in the right spot for when everything took off.

Symmetry 3y ago
And probably they'd been at least thinking about that since the early 2000s to have it ready by then. But the claim is that they were thinking about it since their beginning in 1993, and that's the part that just seems hard to believe.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  That's the claim Jensen has made, and while there isn't any particular evidence besides his word to go off for the founding goal, it's worth considering that between 1993 and 1998 they only put out 2 chips. The first one was quadratic primitive based (which, sounds more focused towards a future of compute applications, due to the ease of representing equations in such a form), and the second one was a last ditch effort triangle primitive chip to avoid bankruptcy after DirectX settled on triangle primitives. So I don't really think those years count for much in terms of determining what their goal was. Their release cadence only really picked up in 1998, and just 2-3 years later they had the first 'programmable' GPUs with early shaders. As such, saying that NVIDIA wasn't always aiming for GPU compute feels kinda like saying that SpaceX wasn't always aiming for feasibly reusable rocketry because it took them ~15 years to build up to their current version of it.
  - agumonkey 3y ago
    Also a funny 'existential' point to remember. You have a clean idea (doing math / quad-splines) but the market sinks it.. doesn't mean it won't be good later. It's a game of long and patient grind.

xyzzy_plugh 3y ago

Nvidia has been peddling compute for decades. They've long been selling enterprise tier cards for industrial purposes that are ill-suited to games. In many ways CUDA has been their long running attempt to break out of gaming. I'm not surprised here. They invested and invested and invested and now everyone is playing catch up while they nearly corner the market. In industry circles we've been lamenting their dominance in this area for well over a decade. Google and Apple are the only companies I see that have a shot at disrupting their market but they tend to end up navel gazing instead of burning bridges. And Nvidia has bridges with everyone. It's absolutely an industrial geopolitics mastercraft scenario. We'll be studying them for a century. Everyone has long known that the secret to unlocking the next tier of performance is solving concurrency. Look at all the advances that have made it into production in the last twenty years. But threading models only get you so far on a CPU, and programming GPUs is comparatively very difficult. Nvidia has always aimed to displace the CPU's prominence, since day one. It's horizontal scaling 101.

bcrosby95 3y ago
Decades is still long after the first GeForce. Before CUDA we had third parties using graphics primitives to run general purposes computing. So I'm not buying it.
erupt7893 3y ago
They've been peddling compute since mid-2000's, however Nvidia has been around for much longer. To the revisionist history point, I'm unfamiliar seeing any of this prior to that. Unless I'm missing something, they were very much a graphics only company competing with 3dfx, Matrox, S3, ATi, etc
- dotnet00 3y ago
  They were founded in 1993, but until 1998 had only put out 2 chips, the first was a quadratic surface renderer that didn't sell well, and the second was a normal triangle rasterizer that saved them from bankruptcy. Then in 2001 they released the first GPU that could run code, each subsequent generation expanding on that capability until they were able to do general purpose compute with CUDA.

Scene_Cast2 3y ago

They tried to do physics acceleration at one point. I think they were trying to find a niche for their DSP-style compute.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> They tried to do physics acceleration at one point Well, there is PhysX which they bought in 2008 and still have; when they bought PhysX they shifted the acceleration implementation from relying on dedicated physics accelerator hardware to GPGPU. There’s APEX which was built on top of PhysX but later discontinued. There’s FleX… “At one point” might be a slight misstatement.

nabla9 3y ago

It's not hard to believe. The idea that future of computing is related to parallel numerical computing and linear algebra (HPC, graphics ,scientific computing, data science, machine learning) predates current deep learning boom. Already in 2003 and GPGPU (General-purpose computing on graphics processing units) was a thing. OpenVidia came out in 2003.

agumonkey 3y ago

I'm 50/50 on this. I don't think they ever envisioned (npi) that gaming would grow that much and would allow them to pivot back into GPU based HPC. That said they might always had a dream hinting at this.