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Good luck walking 5 mins with 6 or 8 bags of shopping, a five year old and a baby in a pushchair. All these arguments for car-free cities are mostly supported

Good luck walking 5 mins with 6 or 8 bags of shopping, a five year old and a baby in a pushchair. All these arguments for car-free cities are mostly supported by young, single and childfree urbanites.

underdeserver 3y ago
This is what a cargo bike is for.
- gadders 3y ago
  It's mad that you can't see that strapping two kids and 8 bags of shopping into a cargo bike and cycling 10 minutes is far worse than doing the same errand by car.
  - nick_ 3y ago
    Worse how? Worse because we're all used to ignoring the negative externalities of driving everywhere? Worse because our kids are used to acting however they want in the back seat of a car? Worse because we built these horribly isolating daily transport systems where people tint their car windows so we can't even see each other and then yell at each other's driving abilities? The point is that of course it's true that driving is "easier", but it'd be obviously worse in a lot of ways if we didn't build cities the way we did.
    - throwawa14223 3y ago
      > isolating daily transport systems where people tint their car windows so we can't even see each other. You bring up a lot of good points, but why is this a bad thing?
  - broguinn 3y ago
    This hasn't been my experience.
  - KingMob 3y ago
    Not as mad as imagining that everyone without a car does this onerous strawman version of your errand.
    - gadders 3y ago
      Do you think they would rather swap? What is the weather like where they live?
giraffe_lady 3y ago
Not everyone can or has access to a car so people still have to and do manage that in the car-centric world you're advocating for as well. Except now it's more like walk a mile, wait for the bus, walk another mile.
- gadders 3y ago
  Yes, and it is objectively worse.
arlort 3y ago
You buy 6 or 8 bags or groceries every day?
- zuhsetaqi 3y ago
  Who wants to go to the store every day to buy food? Don’t you have a refrigerator?
- gadders 3y ago
  You want people to go to the store every day? God forbid people want to relax after work.
a_imho 3y ago
There are plenty of alternative solutions compared to outright banning cars. Nothing beats telecommute for speed, safety and emissions for example, but even EVs can mitigate air pollution in cities. They also comfortably beat human powered transportation as soon as someone looks into the carbon footprint of agriculture. Efficiency can differ by orders of magnitude. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-kcal-poore https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-kcal-poore

underdeserver 3y ago

This is what a cargo bike is for.

gadders 3y ago
It's mad that you can't see that strapping two kids and 8 bags of shopping into a cargo bike and cycling 10 minutes is far worse than doing the same errand by car.
- nick_ 3y ago
  Worse how? Worse because we're all used to ignoring the negative externalities of driving everywhere? Worse because our kids are used to acting however they want in the back seat of a car? Worse because we built these horribly isolating daily transport systems where people tint their car windows so we can't even see each other and then yell at each other's driving abilities? The point is that of course it's true that driving is "easier", but it'd be obviously worse in a lot of ways if we didn't build cities the way we did.
  - throwawa14223 3y ago
    > isolating daily transport systems where people tint their car windows so we can't even see each other. You bring up a lot of good points, but why is this a bad thing?
- broguinn 3y ago
  This hasn't been my experience.
- KingMob 3y ago
  Not as mad as imagining that everyone without a car does this onerous strawman version of your errand.
  - gadders 3y ago
    Do you think they would rather swap? What is the weather like where they live?

giraffe_lady 3y ago

Not everyone can or has access to a car so people still have to and do manage that in the car-centric world you're advocating for as well. Except now it's more like walk a mile, wait for the bus, walk another mile.

gadders 3y ago
Yes, and it is objectively worse.

arlort 3y ago

You buy 6 or 8 bags or groceries every day?

zuhsetaqi 3y ago
Who wants to go to the store every day to buy food? Don’t you have a refrigerator?
gadders 3y ago
You want people to go to the store every day? God forbid people want to relax after work.

a_imho 3y ago

There are plenty of alternative solutions compared to outright banning cars. Nothing beats telecommute for speed, safety and emissions for example, but even EVs can mitigate air pollution in cities. They also comfortably beat human powered transportation as soon as someone looks into the carbon footprint of agriculture. Efficiency can differ by orders of magnitude. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-kcal-poore https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-kcal-poore