3 ms·

Not surprising. Natural selection doesn't care about morality. We're all descended from rapists and murderers.

by afpx 3y ago

iainmerrick 3y ago
That's rather inflammatory, but taking your comment at face value, I highly recommend "The Evolution of Cooperation" for a very detailed and nuanced exploration of this idea.
- afpx 3y ago
  Thanks, I'll check it out. Also, see "The Better Angels of our Nature"
- simonblack 3y ago
  If you take the bible on face value, you can easily see that every single one of us has incest in our family history.
csomar 3y ago
Do you have any evidence for that? Many animals practice rather peaceful dating. Many species of bird do regular dating and mating for life. Humans display both aspects but I don't think we have any concrete evidence about our grand-grand fathers.
- O1111OOO 3y ago
  > Many animals practice rather peaceful dating. Not OP but occasionally I come across videos of 'animals behaving really badly' so I did a (very specific and extreme) quick search below. I think we all know about male lions killing cubs that don't belong to them, dolphin's dark side, etc... https://start.duckduckgo.com/?q=murderers+and+rapists+among+the+animal+kingdom&ia=web https://start.duckduckgo.com/?q=murderers+and+rapists+among+... > I don't think we have any concrete evidence about our grand-grand fathers. I remember getting into a discussion with someone about religion. This person hated religion. I'm not religious. He blamed religion for all the atrocities in the world. I wasn't defending religion but I like to look at both sides and said... Maybe it's because of religion that we haven't already destroyed ourselves. At least with Christian (New Testament) religion (the only one I'm passably familiar with), there are a set of (divine) rules to live by[0]: No killing, no adultery, stop stealing, stop lying, no false testimony, stop envying/coveting what is not yours... etc. ** Please, I don't want to get into a religious argument. ** But, what if... religion was _invented_ by man because man himself was so murdery and rapey as OP (afpx) stated. That the only way to control him/her was by inventing a power greater than man himself. Indoctrinate man at some core level so that these tendencies could be managed somehow. Because even with an all-seeing God, even with a divine set of rules, even with the promise of an after-life... believers broke those "divine" rules (as they do today) - often in the name of religion itself. All of this is supposition for discussion (not argument), please:-) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments?useskin=vector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments?useskin=vecto...
  - earthling8118 3y ago
    This isn't an uncommon thought in the slightest. I hear this used as an argument frequently. Maybe some of you need a booklet with things that you can and cannot do but many of us do not and it isn't because of a religion.
BreadPants 3y ago
Not all, but much of western society, definitely :)
mcphage 3y ago
> Natural selection doesn't care about morality. Natural selection doesn't care about morality, but it does care about incest, since products of incest—especially after a few generations—tend to be markedly less fit.
- johngladtj 3y ago
  That's not actually true
  - mcphage 3y ago
    It's not? In what way?

Not surprising. Natural selection doesn't care about morality. We're all descended from rapists and murderers.

by afpx 3y ago

Not surprising. Natural selection doesn't care about morality. We're all descended from rapists and murderers.

That's rather inflammatory, but taking your comment at face value, I highly recommend "The Evolution of Cooperation" for a very detailed and nuanced exploration of this idea.

afpx 3y ago
Thanks, I'll check it out. Also, see "The Better Angels of our Nature"
simonblack 3y ago
If you take the bible on face value, you can easily see that every single one of us has incest in our family history.

csomar 3y ago

Do you have any evidence for that? Many animals practice rather peaceful dating. Many species of bird do regular dating and mating for life. Humans display both aspects but I don't think we have any concrete evidence about our grand-grand fathers.

O1111OOO 3y ago
> Many animals practice rather peaceful dating. Not OP but occasionally I come across videos of 'animals behaving really badly' so I did a (very specific and extreme) quick search below. I think we all know about male lions killing cubs that don't belong to them, dolphin's dark side, etc... https://start.duckduckgo.com/?q=murderers+and+rapists+among+the+animal+kingdom&ia=web https://start.duckduckgo.com/?q=murderers+and+rapists+among+... > I don't think we have any concrete evidence about our grand-grand fathers. I remember getting into a discussion with someone about religion. This person hated religion. I'm not religious. He blamed religion for all the atrocities in the world. I wasn't defending religion but I like to look at both sides and said... Maybe it's because of religion that we haven't already destroyed ourselves. At least with Christian (New Testament) religion (the only one I'm passably familiar with), there are a set of (divine) rules to live by[0]: No killing, no adultery, stop stealing, stop lying, no false testimony, stop envying/coveting what is not yours... etc. ** Please, I don't want to get into a religious argument. ** But, what if... religion was _invented_ by man because man himself was so murdery and rapey as OP (afpx) stated. That the only way to control him/her was by inventing a power greater than man himself. Indoctrinate man at some core level so that these tendencies could be managed somehow. Because even with an all-seeing God, even with a divine set of rules, even with the promise of an after-life... believers broke those "divine" rules (as they do today) - often in the name of religion itself. All of this is supposition for discussion (not argument), please:-) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments?useskin=vector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments?useskin=vecto...
- earthling8118 3y ago
  This isn't an uncommon thought in the slightest. I hear this used as an argument frequently. Maybe some of you need a booklet with things that you can and cannot do but many of us do not and it isn't because of a religion.

BreadPants 3y ago

Not all, but much of western society, definitely :)

mcphage 3y ago

> Natural selection doesn't care about morality. Natural selection doesn't care about morality, but it does care about incest, since products of incest—especially after a few generations—tend to be markedly less fit.

johngladtj 3y ago
That's not actually true
- mcphage 3y ago
  It's not? In what way?