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The version of the story without all the fnords: Honduras solicited investment in the form of charter cities, where corporations could buy pockets of land and r

The version of the story without all the fnords: Honduras solicited investment in the form of charter cities, where corporations could buy pockets of land and run them however they wanted. Then a more socialist government came into power, reversed the law allowing them to exist, and refused to give them their money back. The biggest, Próspera, is suing to get their money back. Worth noting, this is a standard risk in Latam and the government that introduced them made it a constitutional amendment with a ten-year reversal process, since they wouldn't get any investors otherwise. The primary complicating factor here in Próspera's lawsuit is that they have not actually lost their investment yet; nine years to go. But Honduras's response is to withdraw from the court system and legal framework that Próspera's suing them in, the ICSID. If they actually go through with this, that's going to be the end of most foreign investment in Honduras at all, charter city or otherwise. The ICSID is there to ensure that your investment stake won't be confiscated by the government when political winds change; Honduras is withdrawing because it wants to do exactly that, and no investor will risk that happening to them. Also despite the article saying 'crypto' a dozen times their only relation to crypto is accepting it as legal tender, same as neighboring El Salvador. Instead of 'DAOs avoiding the FTC' one should think 'biotech avoiding the FDA'.

archerx 3y ago
I wonder if all the huge manufacturing factories near San Pedro Sula/Cortez will pack up and move to either El Salvador or Guatemala in response to this?
chabes 3y ago
> Honduras solicited investment in the form of charter cities, where corporations could buy pockets of land and run them however they wanted. Then a more socialist government came into power, reversed the law allowing them to exist, and refused to give them their money back. No mention of democratically elected government being ousted by US-backed coup, or the fact that this single company is asking for a third of the country’s GDP. On crypto: you seem very confident about your position, yet if you talk to actual people on the ground, you’ll get a different story than you are proposing. Crypto advocates are bragging about this very subject. It started with El Salvador, but goes well beyond one country now. And for the record… I am not anti-crypto. I have been involved with bitcoin for 9 years.
- acdha 3y ago
  A “US-backed coup” is a bit misleading: Zelaya refused to follow the law, but the US didn’t back him - they tried to keep it from turning into a war before an election he was excluded from so the Honduran people could settle it democratically. I don’t like the realpolitik in avoiding recognizing his coup attempt as such but that’s not the same as backing him.
  - chabes 3y ago
    That is the narrative, sure, but is it the reality? Why would it ever be presented otherwise? The US government refuses to follow its own laws.
    - ch4s3 3y ago
      It isn't "the narrative". The Honduran Supreme Court issues the arrest warrant. There was a congressional investigation that reviewed state department cables and found exactly what the part post is claiming.
    - semiquaver 3y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional... Zelaya was constitutionally barred from re-election.
      - chabes 3y ago
        Post-coup
        semiquaver 3y ago
        No, he was term-limited to the single term allowed by the constitution and was running anyway, with a fig-leaf of a referendum for a proposed constitutional convention to retroactively legalize the second term, the timing of which could never have allowed him to legally run for president. This was a “constitutional coup” by the judiciary designed to prevent an illegal second term that was clearly otherwise going to happen. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honduran_fourth_ballot_box_referendum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honduran_fourth_ballot_box_r...
hhshhhhjjjd 3y ago
"Political winds change" like a US backed coup in 2009 that put the guy in power who made these laws? What international institution protects against that? Are countries bound by law if it was made by an illegitimate government?
- idiotsecant 3y ago
  Did you make an account just for this post?
  - zztop44 3y ago
    Is that relevant to the question they asked?
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      yes. this is an election year and GPT is a thing. shillbots gonna shill. this is a blatant one, which means it's low-effort; here to stir the pot. the real agi-prop effort will be a repost bot with a real looking history.
      - hhshhhhjjjd 3y ago
        Nope. Real person, sorry! Yes i make a new account every time I lose my ddg session. Not llm spam. Just a very opinionated human/dog
- ch4s3 3y ago
  The only US involvement in ousting Zelaya was the State Department asking neighboring countries not to intervene. The Supreme Court of Honduras issued the arrest warrant for him on their own. It was an entirely internal affair until after they tossed him onto a plane. And on top of that, the guy was trying to illegally change the constitution.
  - roenxi 3y ago
temp123789246 3y ago
TIL what “fnord” is. I think that is a perfect way to describe much of this article.
- readthenotes1 3y ago
  _The Illuminatus Trilogy_ , where I learned this word, is a fantastic read.
medo-bear 3y ago
When Ukraine told Russia it was not going to pay back loans (prior to invasion) the West applauded. Today the West is seriously considering expropriating external Russian property. Also apparently there is nothing wrong with this. But when a small country in what is "rightfully" the US' playground threatens to protect its sovereignty from US corporations, apparently this is a whole different story.
- etothepii 3y ago
  The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. --Thucydides
red-iron-pine 3y ago
> Honduras solicited investment in the form of charter cities, where corporations could buy pockets of land and run them however they wanted. Bioshock: Jungle Edition

archerx 3y ago

I wonder if all the huge manufacturing factories near San Pedro Sula/Cortez will pack up and move to either El Salvador or Guatemala in response to this?

chabes 3y ago

> Honduras solicited investment in the form of charter cities, where corporations could buy pockets of land and run them however they wanted. Then a more socialist government came into power, reversed the law allowing them to exist, and refused to give them their money back. No mention of democratically elected government being ousted by US-backed coup, or the fact that this single company is asking for a third of the country’s GDP. On crypto: you seem very confident about your position, yet if you talk to actual people on the ground, you’ll get a different story than you are proposing. Crypto advocates are bragging about this very subject. It started with El Salvador, but goes well beyond one country now. And for the record… I am not anti-crypto. I have been involved with bitcoin for 9 years.

acdha 3y ago
A “US-backed coup” is a bit misleading: Zelaya refused to follow the law, but the US didn’t back him - they tried to keep it from turning into a war before an election he was excluded from so the Honduran people could settle it democratically. I don’t like the realpolitik in avoiding recognizing his coup attempt as such but that’s not the same as backing him.
- chabes 3y ago
  That is the narrative, sure, but is it the reality? Why would it ever be presented otherwise? The US government refuses to follow its own laws.
  - ch4s3 3y ago
    It isn't "the narrative". The Honduran Supreme Court issues the arrest warrant. There was a congressional investigation that reviewed state department cables and found exactly what the part post is claiming.
  - semiquaver 3y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional... Zelaya was constitutionally barred from re-election.
    - chabes 3y ago
      Post-coup
      - semiquaver 3y ago
        No, he was term-limited to the single term allowed by the constitution and was running anyway, with a fig-leaf of a referendum for a proposed constitutional convention to retroactively legalize the second term, the timing of which could never have allowed him to legally run for president. This was a “constitutional coup” by the judiciary designed to prevent an illegal second term that was clearly otherwise going to happen. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honduran_fourth_ballot_box_referendum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honduran_fourth_ballot_box_r...

hhshhhhjjjd 3y ago

"Political winds change" like a US backed coup in 2009 that put the guy in power who made these laws? What international institution protects against that? Are countries bound by law if it was made by an illegitimate government?

idiotsecant 3y ago
Did you make an account just for this post?
- zztop44 3y ago
  Is that relevant to the question they asked?
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    yes. this is an election year and GPT is a thing. shillbots gonna shill. this is a blatant one, which means it's low-effort; here to stir the pot. the real agi-prop effort will be a repost bot with a real looking history.
    - hhshhhhjjjd 3y ago
      Nope. Real person, sorry! Yes i make a new account every time I lose my ddg session. Not llm spam. Just a very opinionated human/dog
ch4s3 3y ago
The only US involvement in ousting Zelaya was the State Department asking neighboring countries not to intervene. The Supreme Court of Honduras issued the arrest warrant for him on their own. It was an entirely internal affair until after they tossed him onto a plane. And on top of that, the guy was trying to illegally change the constitution.
- roenxi 3y ago

temp123789246 3y ago

TIL what “fnord” is. I think that is a perfect way to describe much of this article.

readthenotes1 3y ago
_The Illuminatus Trilogy_ , where I learned this word, is a fantastic read.

medo-bear 3y ago

When Ukraine told Russia it was not going to pay back loans (prior to invasion) the West applauded. Today the West is seriously considering expropriating external Russian property. Also apparently there is nothing wrong with this. But when a small country in what is "rightfully" the US' playground threatens to protect its sovereignty from US corporations, apparently this is a whole different story.

etothepii 3y ago
The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. --Thucydides

red-iron-pine 3y ago

> Honduras solicited investment in the form of charter cities, where corporations could buy pockets of land and run them however they wanted. Bioshock: Jungle Edition