5 ms·

Do they solder the USB-C connectors on the motherboard still? Because that has been actually the only fatality in the T470/T495/T14 machines I have. There is no

by cjk2 3y ago

Do they solder the USB-C connectors on the motherboard still? Because that has been actually the only fatality in the T470/T495/T14 machines I have. There is no way of effectively repairing the connector other than throwing the motherboard away as the connector shell usually rips up traces when it goes. Apple put theirs on a replaceable daughter board, which while annoying to get out, is possible with minimal tools. I’d expect the same if iFixit are crowing on this. Edit: did some googling and found out that no they haven’t fixed this flaw. The USB-C ports are still directly soldered to the motherboard. More landfill and completely compromises this marketing. And it makes a mockery of iFixit supposed 9/10 score. Source: https://www.ifixit.com/Document/sunTY6dbbJvOMRjP/Repairability-Snapshot-%E2%80%93-Lenovo-ThinkPad-T14-Gen-5.pdf https://www.ifixit.com/Document/sunTY6dbbJvOMRjP/Repairabili...

daghamm 3y ago
Are there often problems with these connectors? Asking because I bought a "broken" thinkpad very cheap and the only thing that doesn't work is the USB ports that occasionally stop working.
- cjk2 3y ago
  Yes very regularly. Also on Dell machines from experience. Yubikey wore out both USB-C ports on a dell 5550 in under a year.
  - baq 3y ago
    Is it USB-C fault in general or a peculiarity of the Dell? I'd be rather pissed if that happened to any laptop and wonder what the precautions should be.
    - cjk2 3y ago
      I think it's a bit of both. The USB-C connector design isn't great. And some vendors have worse connector shells then others. Dell and Lenovo seem to have terrible ones. I haven't had any problem with Apple USB-C connectors or anything on Anker or Google Pixel devices. I really wish they did design USB-C in a way like lightning. It was very difficult to screw up a lightning port unless you were really determined. At most the connector blade would snap off in the device thus breaking the cheap end of the connector, not the expensive end.
      - baq 3y ago
        Thanks, feeling slightly better. Actually I really don't like lightning cables but thinking about it now what I actually don't like is how the cables themselves break. I had only slight issues with lint in ports which I needed to pick out with a toothpick, never had a connector snap off or anything like that, but the cables failed all the time regardless. Maybe if Apple weren't so stubborn about cable thinness we'd be in a different place right now.
        cjk2 3y ago
        The cables were crap yes I agree there. But case in point my mother has my 2015 phone 6s. It’s been through me and two of my kids already. We are all violent simian creatures who spend a lot of time doing silly things outdoors. But the port is still fine. I don’t think this will be the case for my iPhone 15 with USB-C
  - arkh 3y ago
    > Also on Dell machines from experience. Yup, current personal laptop: had to send it back for a motherboard change due to the USB-C not charging anything. One year later almost the same problem but this time one of the port is still working. Work latptop: exact same problem. USB port dead which necessitated a motherboard change. Dell makes really poor quality laptops nowadays.
- PennRobotics 3y ago
  I don't know your particular model or situation and what the root cause would even be, but I have had issues with the USB ports that were later fixed in firmware, or one port that would stop working after a BIOS update until I disconnect the battery and wait a few minutes. Others on the Lenovo forums have identical/similar issues and resolutions. I also had a functional laptop where they switched out the mainboard due to USB connector issues (which never showed up in BIOS tests). Lenovo's approach to USB is a mystery.
throwaway48476 3y ago
Ifixit focuses on some weird criteria. Like pentalobe screws are annoying but not a real impediment to repair. Soldered NAND is a wear item and a WAY bigger deal.
- cjk2 3y ago
  iFixit are a business. They are driven on attention and sales. Not facts. Although some of the time they overlap.
  - throwaway48476 3y ago
    I'm not going to denigrate them for being a business. They've done more for repairability and sustainability than most. Repairability is a process not a factual end state, there are tradeoffs in design.
    - cjk2 3y ago
      I will because their own products aren’t particularly good and their assessment of repairability on some products, as evidenced here, is likely biased by business relations. I do a lot of repair work (ex EE / production engineer) and I’ve been shot by poor parts and tools from them. I look elsewhere first.
      - throwaway48476 3y ago
        What I believe you are referring to is that most of the ifixit branded parts are white label with commensurate quality. This is not really a unique problem. Almost everything on Amazon/aliexpress is the same white label junk. Buying brand name parts sometimes implys a brand name level of QC but its increasingly not the case. As for ifixit I would treat the products sold in partnership with the OEM differently from the ifixit brand ones.
        cjk2 3y ago
        Agree on all points. However sometimes the OEM branded parts are bundled in packs with iFixit tools. Notably with the Pixel parts as an example. Honestly I'd rather go direct to vendor for parts or service and decent turnaround and there's only one that offers this I can name.
0x38B 3y ago
This reminds me of Louis Rossman’s long-term use review of his Framework 13 (1); he was hard on it and killed some of the ports, but thanks to them being swappable, was able to just slot a new one in. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sw06swtgY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sw06swtgY0
- cjk2 3y ago
  I think somewhere in the middle of the framework and Lenovo is appropriate. I don't mind spending some time replacing ports but I do mind spending money on buying pluggable ones I'm going to plug in once. Apple have the right approach (apart from having to remove the logic board to get at it): https://support.apple.com/en-us/103915 https://support.apple.com/en-us/103915 ... port boards are individually purchasable from https://selfservicerepair.com https://selfservicerepair.com
  - thisislife2 3y ago
    > Apple have the right approach ... Planned obsolescence through SoCs with no literature for system developers, soldered CPU, RAM, SSDs etc. and possible part-pairing on laptops and desktops was pioneered by Apple. I'd even go far as to say that the whole Right to Repair movement is an anti-Apple movement triggered by their hostility to consumer rights.
    - cjk2 3y ago
      I think the planned obsolescence thing may not have any legs. My mother has a 9 year old Apple SoC in her pocket which is still getting software updates... As for all the other things the claims are usable in both directions. They're still dicks though!
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - luyu_wu 3y ago
        Yeah. No. My mothers Macbook's display connector came loose after 3 years. No plausible way to fix it because the display cable is hidden under all the other components. Anecdotes aren't the best, but there ARE reasons Apple got this reputation.
victorstanciu 3y ago
> There is no way of effectively repairing the connector other than throwing the motherboard away You're exaggerating. NorthridgeFix on YouTube has probably dozens of videos of him replacing USB-C connectors. Yes, he sometimes has to replace the traces with pad strips, but that's a long way to throwing the whole board away.
- cjk2 3y ago
  Not even slightly exaggerating. The repairs are overstated. If you think these fixes last more than a few weeks you are probably mistaken. And due to the way footprints are designed for the shells there are occluded pins which can’t be resoldered or repaired. The end game is you have a USB-C connector that only works one way up on Thursdays when the moon is aligned with Jupiter.
  - blkhawk 3y ago
    uh you resolder the occulded pins the same way you solder occluded pins on say a BGA. With a heat and the right paste type. Its a bit tricky but should be doable. That said I like the framework solution better - hust protect the usb-c ports by adding a short extension.
    - cjk2 3y ago
      Well you don't because there is a row of pads stuck to the bottom of the connector which is torn off the board. You can only resolder and patch up the other row on the end of the connector body. The row that is torn off the board will never work again. Also you may be lucky if it can do power delivery after that. You would be really lucky if it still works as USB hole and you'd be blessed if TB works over it after. They are pretty much transmission lines not DC.
  - justsomehnguy 3y ago
    People grind the multi-layer sandwich of iPhone connectors and BCP, restore traces on multiple layers and then get everything back so the phone is working. It's surely less trouble to restore just a USB port.
BizarroLand 3y ago
I bet you could get one of those magnetic usb-c 100w power connectors and fix this flaw for the most part simply by virtue of a breakaway connector that put minimal strain on the laptop. Of course, those connectors don't carry data, so for connecting to a dock you would still be sol.

by cjk2 3y ago

daghamm 3y ago

Are there often problems with these connectors? Asking because I bought a "broken" thinkpad very cheap and the only thing that doesn't work is the USB ports that occasionally stop working.

cjk2 3y ago
Yes very regularly. Also on Dell machines from experience. Yubikey wore out both USB-C ports on a dell 5550 in under a year.
- baq 3y ago
  Is it USB-C fault in general or a peculiarity of the Dell? I'd be rather pissed if that happened to any laptop and wonder what the precautions should be.
  - cjk2 3y ago
    I think it's a bit of both. The USB-C connector design isn't great. And some vendors have worse connector shells then others. Dell and Lenovo seem to have terrible ones. I haven't had any problem with Apple USB-C connectors or anything on Anker or Google Pixel devices. I really wish they did design USB-C in a way like lightning. It was very difficult to screw up a lightning port unless you were really determined. At most the connector blade would snap off in the device thus breaking the cheap end of the connector, not the expensive end.
    - baq 3y ago
      Thanks, feeling slightly better. Actually I really don't like lightning cables but thinking about it now what I actually don't like is how the cables themselves break. I had only slight issues with lint in ports which I needed to pick out with a toothpick, never had a connector snap off or anything like that, but the cables failed all the time regardless. Maybe if Apple weren't so stubborn about cable thinness we'd be in a different place right now.
      - cjk2 3y ago
        The cables were crap yes I agree there. But case in point my mother has my 2015 phone 6s. It’s been through me and two of my kids already. We are all violent simian creatures who spend a lot of time doing silly things outdoors. But the port is still fine. I don’t think this will be the case for my iPhone 15 with USB-C
- arkh 3y ago
  > Also on Dell machines from experience. Yup, current personal laptop: had to send it back for a motherboard change due to the USB-C not charging anything. One year later almost the same problem but this time one of the port is still working. Work latptop: exact same problem. USB port dead which necessitated a motherboard change. Dell makes really poor quality laptops nowadays.
PennRobotics 3y ago
I don't know your particular model or situation and what the root cause would even be, but I have had issues with the USB ports that were later fixed in firmware, or one port that would stop working after a BIOS update until I disconnect the battery and wait a few minutes. Others on the Lenovo forums have identical/similar issues and resolutions. I also had a functional laptop where they switched out the mainboard due to USB connector issues (which never showed up in BIOS tests). Lenovo's approach to USB is a mystery.

throwaway48476 3y ago

Ifixit focuses on some weird criteria. Like pentalobe screws are annoying but not a real impediment to repair. Soldered NAND is a wear item and a WAY bigger deal.

cjk2 3y ago
iFixit are a business. They are driven on attention and sales. Not facts. Although some of the time they overlap.
- throwaway48476 3y ago
  I'm not going to denigrate them for being a business. They've done more for repairability and sustainability than most. Repairability is a process not a factual end state, there are tradeoffs in design.
  - cjk2 3y ago
    I will because their own products aren’t particularly good and their assessment of repairability on some products, as evidenced here, is likely biased by business relations. I do a lot of repair work (ex EE / production engineer) and I’ve been shot by poor parts and tools from them. I look elsewhere first.
    - throwaway48476 3y ago
      What I believe you are referring to is that most of the ifixit branded parts are white label with commensurate quality. This is not really a unique problem. Almost everything on Amazon/aliexpress is the same white label junk. Buying brand name parts sometimes implys a brand name level of QC but its increasingly not the case. As for ifixit I would treat the products sold in partnership with the OEM differently from the ifixit brand ones.
      - cjk2 3y ago
        Agree on all points. However sometimes the OEM branded parts are bundled in packs with iFixit tools. Notably with the Pixel parts as an example. Honestly I'd rather go direct to vendor for parts or service and decent turnaround and there's only one that offers this I can name.

0x38B 3y ago

This reminds me of Louis Rossman’s long-term use review of his Framework 13 (1); he was hard on it and killed some of the ports, but thanks to them being swappable, was able to just slot a new one in. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sw06swtgY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sw06swtgY0

cjk2 3y ago
I think somewhere in the middle of the framework and Lenovo is appropriate. I don't mind spending some time replacing ports but I do mind spending money on buying pluggable ones I'm going to plug in once. Apple have the right approach (apart from having to remove the logic board to get at it): https://support.apple.com/en-us/103915 https://support.apple.com/en-us/103915 ... port boards are individually purchasable from https://selfservicerepair.com https://selfservicerepair.com
- thisislife2 3y ago
  > Apple have the right approach ... Planned obsolescence through SoCs with no literature for system developers, soldered CPU, RAM, SSDs etc. and possible part-pairing on laptops and desktops was pioneered by Apple. I'd even go far as to say that the whole Right to Repair movement is an anti-Apple movement triggered by their hostility to consumer rights.
  - cjk2 3y ago
    I think the planned obsolescence thing may not have any legs. My mother has a 9 year old Apple SoC in her pocket which is still getting software updates... As for all the other things the claims are usable in both directions. They're still dicks though!
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - luyu_wu 3y ago
      Yeah. No. My mothers Macbook's display connector came loose after 3 years. No plausible way to fix it because the display cable is hidden under all the other components. Anecdotes aren't the best, but there ARE reasons Apple got this reputation.

victorstanciu 3y ago

> There is no way of effectively repairing the connector other than throwing the motherboard away You're exaggerating. NorthridgeFix on YouTube has probably dozens of videos of him replacing USB-C connectors. Yes, he sometimes has to replace the traces with pad strips, but that's a long way to throwing the whole board away.

cjk2 3y ago
Not even slightly exaggerating. The repairs are overstated. If you think these fixes last more than a few weeks you are probably mistaken. And due to the way footprints are designed for the shells there are occluded pins which can’t be resoldered or repaired. The end game is you have a USB-C connector that only works one way up on Thursdays when the moon is aligned with Jupiter.
- blkhawk 3y ago
  uh you resolder the occulded pins the same way you solder occluded pins on say a BGA. With a heat and the right paste type. Its a bit tricky but should be doable. That said I like the framework solution better - hust protect the usb-c ports by adding a short extension.
  - cjk2 3y ago
    Well you don't because there is a row of pads stuck to the bottom of the connector which is torn off the board. You can only resolder and patch up the other row on the end of the connector body. The row that is torn off the board will never work again. Also you may be lucky if it can do power delivery after that. You would be really lucky if it still works as USB hole and you'd be blessed if TB works over it after. They are pretty much transmission lines not DC.
- justsomehnguy 3y ago
  People grind the multi-layer sandwich of iPhone connectors and BCP, restore traces on multiple layers and then get everything back so the phone is working. It's surely less trouble to restore just a USB port.

BizarroLand 3y ago

I bet you could get one of those magnetic usb-c 100w power connectors and fix this flaw for the most part simply by virtue of a breakaway connector that put minimal strain on the laptop. Of course, those connectors don't carry data, so for connecting to a dock you would still be sol.