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Lenovo announced ThinkPads for 'better sustainability and extended repairabilty'
- opengears 3y agoLenovo announced new ThinkPads with "better sustainability and extended repairabilty'. The Intel variants are the L14 i Gen5, L16 i Gen1, L13 2-in-1 Gen 5, X13 Gen 5 and X13 2-in-1 Gen 5. AMD variants of the L14 Gen 5 and L16 Gen 1 have also been announced (but with sadly no TB4, but USB-4 only). The press release further reads that "One of the key features of the new ThinkPad L14 Gen 5 and L16 Gen 1 is enhanced repairability, with support from iFixit who have delivered a preliminary score of 9 out of 10.".
- zer00eyz 3y agoDo I want one? I sure do. Can I justify it? I can not. I want to like linux desktop, I do. But Linux desktop feels more like it's part of the project and less like a tool.
- cjk2 3y agoDo they solder the USB-C connectors on the motherboard still? Because that has been actually the only fatality in the T470/T495/T14 machines I have. There is no way of effectively repairing the connector other than throwing the motherboard away as the connector shell usually rips up traces when it goes. Apple put theirs on a replaceable daughter board, which while annoying to get out, is possible with minimal tools. I’d expect the same if iFixit are crowing on this. Edit: did some googling and found out that no they haven’t fixed this flaw. The USB-C ports are still directly soldered to the motherboard. More landfill and completely compromises this marketing. And it makes a mockery of iFixit supposed 9/10 score. Source: https://www.ifixit.com/Document/sunTY6dbbJvOMRjP/Repairability-Snapshot-%E2%80%93-Lenovo-ThinkPad-T14-Gen-5.pdf https://www.ifixit.com/Document/sunTY6dbbJvOMRjP/Repairabili...
- daghamm 3y agoAre there often problems with these connectors? Asking because I bought a "broken" thinkpad very cheap and the only thing that doesn't work is the USB ports that occasionally stop working.
- cjk2 3y agoYes very regularly. Also on Dell machines from experience. Yubikey wore out both USB-C ports on a dell 5550 in under a year.
- baq 3y agoIs it USB-C fault in general or a peculiarity of the Dell? I'd be rather pissed if that happened to any laptop and wonder what the precautions should be.
- cjk2 3y agoI think it's a bit of both. The USB-C connector design isn't great. And some vendors have worse connector shells then others. Dell and Lenovo seem to have terrible ones. I haven't had any problem with Apple USB-C connectors or anything on Anker or Google Pixel devices. I really wish they did design USB-C in a way like lightning. It was very difficult to screw up a lightning port unless you were really determined. At most the connector blade would snap off in the device thus breaking the cheap end of the connector, not the expensive end.
- baq 3y agoThanks, feeling slightly better. Actually I really don't like lightning cables but thinking about it now what I actually don't like is how the cables themselves break. I had only slight issues with lint in ports which I needed to pick out with a toothpick, never had a connector snap off or anything like that, but the cables failed all the time regardless. Maybe if Apple weren't so stubborn about cable thinness we'd be in a different place right now.
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- throwaway48476 3y agoIfixit focuses on some weird criteria. Like pentalobe screws are annoying but not a real impediment to repair. Soldered NAND is a wear item and a WAY bigger deal.
- cjk2 3y agoiFixit are a business. They are driven on attention and sales. Not facts. Although some of the time they overlap.
- throwaway48476 3y agoI'm not going to denigrate them for being a business. They've done more for repairability and sustainability than most. Repairability is a process not a factual end state, there are tradeoffs in design.
- cjk2 3y agoI will because their own products aren’t particularly good and their assessment of repairability on some products, as evidenced here, is likely biased by business relations. I do a lot of repair work (ex EE / production engineer) and I’ve been shot by poor parts and tools from them. I look elsewhere first.
- throwaway48476 3y agoWhat I believe you are referring to is that most of the ifixit branded parts are white label with commensurate quality. This is not really a unique problem. Almost everything on Amazon/aliexpress is the same white label junk. Buying brand name parts sometimes implys a brand name level of QC but its increasingly not the case. As for ifixit I would treat the products sold in partnership with the OEM differently from the ifixit brand ones.
- cjk2 3y agoAgree on all points. However sometimes the OEM branded parts are bundled in packs with iFixit tools. Notably with the Pixel parts as an example. Honestly I'd rather go direct to vendor for parts or service and decent turnaround and there's only one that offers this I can name.
- 0x38B 3y agoThis reminds me of Louis Rossman’s long-term use review of his Framework 13 (1); he was hard on it and killed some of the ports, but thanks to them being swappable, was able to just slot a new one in. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sw06swtgY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sw06swtgY0
- cjk2 3y agoI think somewhere in the middle of the framework and Lenovo is appropriate. I don't mind spending some time replacing ports but I do mind spending money on buying pluggable ones I'm going to plug in once. Apple have the right approach (apart from having to remove the logic board to get at it): https://support.apple.com/en-us/103915 https://support.apple.com/en-us/103915 ... port boards are individually purchasable from https://selfservicerepair.com https://selfservicerepair.com
- thisislife2 3y ago> Apple have the right approach ... Planned obsolescence through SoCs with no literature for system developers, soldered CPU, RAM, SSDs etc. and possible part-pairing on laptops and desktops was pioneered by Apple. I'd even go far as to say that the whole Right to Repair movement is an anti-Apple movement triggered by their hostility to consumer rights.
- cjk2 3y agoI think the planned obsolescence thing may not have any legs. My mother has a 9 year old Apple SoC in her pocket which is still getting software updates... As for all the other things the claims are usable in both directions. They're still dicks though!
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- luyu_wu 3y agoYeah. No. My mothers Macbook's display connector came loose after 3 years. No plausible way to fix it because the display cable is hidden under all the other components. Anecdotes aren't the best, but there ARE reasons Apple got this reputation.
- victorstanciu 3y ago> There is no way of effectively repairing the connector other than throwing the motherboard away You're exaggerating. NorthridgeFix on YouTube has probably dozens of videos of him replacing USB-C connectors. Yes, he sometimes has to replace the traces with pad strips, but that's a long way to throwing the whole board away.
- cjk2 3y agoNot even slightly exaggerating. The repairs are overstated. If you think these fixes last more than a few weeks you are probably mistaken. And due to the way footprints are designed for the shells there are occluded pins which can’t be resoldered or repaired. The end game is you have a USB-C connector that only works one way up on Thursdays when the moon is aligned with Jupiter.
- blkhawk 3y agouh you resolder the occulded pins the same way you solder occluded pins on say a BGA. With a heat and the right paste type. Its a bit tricky but should be doable. That said I like the framework solution better - hust protect the usb-c ports by adding a short extension.
- cjk2 3y agoWell you don't because there is a row of pads stuck to the bottom of the connector which is torn off the board. You can only resolder and patch up the other row on the end of the connector body. The row that is torn off the board will never work again. Also you may be lucky if it can do power delivery after that. You would be really lucky if it still works as USB hole and you'd be blessed if TB works over it after. They are pretty much transmission lines not DC.
- justsomehnguy 3y agoPeople grind the multi-layer sandwich of iPhone connectors and BCP, restore traces on multiple layers and then get everything back so the phone is working. It's surely less trouble to restore just a USB port.
- BizarroLand 3y agoI bet you could get one of those magnetic usb-c 100w power connectors and fix this flaw for the most part simply by virtue of a breakaway connector that put minimal strain on the laptop. Of course, those connectors don't carry data, so for connecting to a dock you would still be sol.
- schroeding 3y ago> DIMM, keyboard, SSD and WWAN Basically a return to the status quo of 10 years ago, isn't it? I am inclined to believe that this (as well as Dell's Concept Luna) is a direct result of Framework's existence and may not have happened without them in this form.
- happymellon 3y agoProbably, and that's not a bad thing. I know that my next laptop would have been a switch from ThinkPads to Framework, and it probably still will be, but I know that there are plenty or organisations that can't move to Framework so having Lenovo fix this is great for many reasons.
- schroeding 3y agoYeah, it's great to see this kind of impact on other, way bigger vendors.
- cherioo 3y agoThose four things have almost always been replacement in many it not most thinkpads. This feels like pure marketing spin.
- thisislife2 3y agoActually, they had been moving towards towards soldering ram and SSD. So this is kind of a positive step back. Thanks frame.work ...!
- yread 3y agoHP EliteBooks 840/5 and 640/5 also have all that and hp publishes very nice videos how to take the machine completely apart
- m463 3y ago> Basically a return to the status quo of 10 years ago, isn't it? couldn't help but imagine: this is the start of the transition to LAAS - laptop as a service (via subscription/advertising). :)
- Snuupy 3y agoI use my laptop on a laptop stand on the couch and bed. Every time I slightly shift positions, the lap detection mode is triggered through the accelerometer (even though it's not on my lap) and the power limit throttles to 11W. You can clearly tell Lenovo does not dog food their own products, nor do they care about them. They've also released broken bios updates which ends up bricking devices. I can find links if people want to know more, but I have stopped recommending ThinkPads to friends and family. The quality is no longer there. This is not a company that cares about their products - just one that attempts to extract the maximum possible value out of its consumers.
- cjk2 3y agoI just replaced my daughter’s T14 gen 3 with a MacBook Air M2 because the thinkpad lasts 2 hours on battery and gets hotter than satan’s nuts. Terrible machine.
- happymellon 3y agoWeird, my AMD T14 gen 3 lasts 6-8 hours and doesn't get hot at all.
- cjk2 3y agoYeah that's because it's not the Intel variant :) Incidentally I get about 13 hours on my MBP.
- happymellon 3y agoI have to use a Mac for work. I'm fine not being subjected to MacOS in my spare time.
- cjk2 3y agoIt's the other way around here. I always run a different platform at home to work. It's part of keeping sane in this industry. Then again the latest macOS broke me completely. But it's not like Microsoft haven't done that several times...
- diego_sandoval 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish
- SwiftyBug 3y ago> Lenovo began to bundle the software with some of its computers in September 2014 Is this a threat even if I choose the option to purchase a computer without an OS?
- ivandenysov 3y agoEven if not that still tells you that you are not just buying a product but also are a product in Lenovo’s eyes
- happymellon 3y agoIt wasn't in ThinkPads. It wasn't only in Lenovo. It was baked into the BIOS. It only affected Windows, but Windows executed this pre-boot section and wouldn't allow it to be bypassed so reinfected after a reinstall. It's removed by Windows Defender since 2015. Is it a threat? Not at this point, but it should bring into question any Microsoft "secure computing" when they enabled this sort of behaviour with no way for users to protect themselves.
- est 3y agokey takeaway: > Komodia was founded by Barak Weichselbaum, a former programmer for Israel's IDF Intelligence Core
- throwaway48476 3y agoCtrl+f "CAMM" 0 results Guess not
- happymellon 3y agoAmazon.com/s?k=camm+memory 0 results Sounds pointless.
- throwaway48476 3y agoLPDDR will never come in SODIMM. Hardly pointless.
- luyu_wu 3y agoIt is when there's no way for users to even replace it at this point!
- gradstudent 3y agoStill no left-and-right charge ports. Why Lenovo, why is this so hard?
- KeplerBoy 3y agoBecause it would add multiple dollars to the BoM.
- squarefoot 3y agoAnd traditional docking stations, I mean the ones you snap the laptop on. I find them incredibly useful with my older thinkpads, and they solve the problem brilliantly.
- aragilar 3y agoCan I have replaceable 95WHr of battery as there was previously?
- MattPalmer1086 3y agoI guess it's nice that it may be easier to repair, but Thinkpads have always been reasonably repairable, even if a bit fiddly. They also last a long time in my experience (current one is at 8 years old, same as the last one I had).
- pjmlp 3y agoAs usual "these new laptops are designed to optimally run Windows 11 and are poised to elevate productivity and streamline professional tasks." Although apparently they are "Windows 11 Pro, Linux certified", so lets see. At least we get our RAM, battery and harddisks components back.
- PennRobotics 3y agoDon't forget to put the Wi-Fi card back in a slot! I didn't want this stupid, buggy Qualcomm Wi-Fi adapter in my AMD ThinkPad (probably one major cause of 6.7.x suspend hanging) and wanted to switch it out with an AX210, but I can't because it's soldered on.
- 28304283409234 3y agoI just hope they upgrade their 1992 speakers to something useable.
- PennRobotics 3y agoOh, and stop leaving the EQ/optimization to drivers or Dolby Access. Those don't make it into Linux.
- reportgunner 3y agoJust buy an old thinkpad not whatever this is.
- opengears 3y agoTo be fair, I have a T430, but we need modern alternatives for 2024 and beyond. Personally I want to see a laptop with AMD CPU, AMD dGPU and Thunderbolt 4 ports.
- reportgunner 3y agoI use a x201 and a T430 fine in 2024. Your modern alternative is to get a macbook
- john61 3y agoDoes it run completely with free software without binary blobs? Any advancements in this regard? This is very important for sustainability in the long run.
- ykonstant 3y agoI had my department at the time buy me a P53 against their wishes; they wanted to get me a Dell workstation, since they had a partnership with Dell which included fast repair service etc. I thought the P53 was the most reliable high end laptop I could get and was supposed to have an amazing keyboard. Instead, the keyboard was average at best and the trackpoint much worse than my older Dell workstation. Then, it was one hardware/firmware problem after another, until a small water spill put the cherry on top: wrecked performance and now it cannot boot if not plugged in. Once upon a time, Thinkpads had great, water-resistant keyboards and a solid build with reliable ports, but now this has become a fairy tale. The article does not really address any of this. I am never buying a Thinkpad again, although I really don't know what my options are :( I hear Dell is tanking the quality of their high-end workstations too.
- Gud 3y agoMy X1 gen 6 carbon has a broken USB charging port, which I could live with, but today the thunderbolt port also broke. Battery is also dead.
- disqard 3y ago> "[...] are AI PCs ready to take AI workflows to the next level" Every single thing has to be rubber-stamped with the magic word. Part of me is sick of it, but another part of me is happy -- once it's overused enough to make everyone sick of it, it'll become an "avoid" word (e.g. we're starting to see this with "blockchain"), and then it'll go away.
- j_h_o 3y agoI'm frustrated with my T14s Gen 3 AMD/P14s Gen 3 AMD -- the LCD panel is attached with tape[1] (!!) and my LCD panel has slipped down a few times. I dislike single-use adhesives. I wish for them to go back to screwing in the panel into the lid. [1] https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/t14s_gen3_x13_gen3_hmm_en.pdf https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/t14s_gen3_x13... page 101 (labelled page 95)