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I wish the article lingered a bit more on how people might've been fermenting foods in the past as well as exploring what fermentable food options were availabl

I wish the article lingered a bit more on how people might've been fermenting foods in the past as well as exploring what fermentable food options were available. It would be interesting to run some experiments storing various foods in different ecosystems over long periods of time. How falsifiable is their hypothesis? This would've been mostly in the African continent, right? I'd imagine it would be hard to get consistent fermentation going in more tropical climates.

jslabovitz 3y ago
The excellent book On Food and Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen (Harold McGee) has sections on major food groups, along with some incredible stories of how those foods have been preserved in the past — many of which involve some sort of fermentation. I recall one story about birds being encased inside a dead seal, which was then buried for a time (looking that up now, I think it's Inuit 'kiviak'). It's a great book all around, if you're interested in how food works.
- fbdab103 3y ago
  I must be missing something. That sounds like encasing some rapidly rotting meat inside more rotting meat. A significantly less appealing turducken. It would take some strong convictions to turn multiple meals now (seal + bird) into a future meal that could potentially be stolen by scavengers.
  - 4gotunameagain 3y ago
    From wikipedia: Up to 500 whole auks are packed into the seal skin, beaks and feathers included. As much air as possible is removed from the seal skin before it is sewn up and sealed with seal fat, which repels flies. It is then hidden in a heap of stones, with a large rock placed on top to keep the air out. Over the course of three months, the birds ferment, and are then eaten during the Arctic winter, particularly on birthdays and weddings. Things were rough up there
    - fbdab103 3y ago
      Well...that is certainly something. I am still bewildered as to how the method was discovered. Taking valuable seals and birds to run multi-month experiments does not seem like it would make you a popular fellow. Best case scenario, you discovered a way of making what sounds a vile, but technically edible, flesh paste. The extended quote from the Wikipedia page notes some people have died from preparing it improperly Polar explorer Knud Rasmussen's death is attributed to food poisoning by kiviaq.[5][6] In August 2013 several people died in Siorapaluk from eating kiviak that was made from eider rather than auk. Eider does not ferment as well as auk, and those who ate it contracted botulism.[7]
      - cperciva 3y ago
        I am still bewildered as to how the method was discovered. Hunting cultures often have periods of surplus. Most likely this wasn't so much deliberate fermentation as an attempt to store their surplus; the fact that it turned well was a happy accident.
  - rolisz 3y ago
    Think about hakarl: icelandic rotten shark. It stinks to high heaven: I'm not kidding, a colleague brought a small sealed cup to the office and opened it. The whole floor (where 80+ people were seated) stank like crazy. Regular shark meat is poisonous. But if you bury it in the sand and leave it for 6 weeks, the toxin decomposes and humans no longer die from it. But it stinks. How hungry must have those Icelanders been that they tried this?
    - Tor3 3y ago
      Well.. I tried it in Iceland. In a restaurant. Looked like rubber cubes, didn't smell much, but unfortunately it tasted what it looked like (rubber).
    - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
      > Regular shark meat is poisonous What kind of shark is that? I grew up eating salted shark meat and it was the only kind of fish I'd eat as a kid.
- nightfly 3y ago
  Check out the manga/anime Moyashimon if you haven't already
joshuahaglund 3y ago
Iru, fermented locust beans, come from Africa. Tempeh comes from Indonesia. Seems like most fermented foods prefer somewhat warm temperatures
- xolox 3y ago
  I regularly make (grow) tempeh and koji and both require a food dehydrator to keep the temperature around 30°C for the duration of the fermentation (in my case, living in the Netherlands, so Western Europe). Both tempeh and koji are molds (mycelium that doesn't produce mushrooms). I also make milk kefir, water kefir, sourdough and kombucha and while none of these cultures require the higher temperatures, they do thrive in the higher temperatures. I also grow quite a few species of mushrooms and have learned that a lot of species incubate quite aggressively at higher temperatures (25-35°C).

jslabovitz 3y ago

The excellent book On Food and Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen (Harold McGee) has sections on major food groups, along with some incredible stories of how those foods have been preserved in the past — many of which involve some sort of fermentation. I recall one story about birds being encased inside a dead seal, which was then buried for a time (looking that up now, I think it's Inuit 'kiviak'). It's a great book all around, if you're interested in how food works.

fbdab103 3y ago
I must be missing something. That sounds like encasing some rapidly rotting meat inside more rotting meat. A significantly less appealing turducken. It would take some strong convictions to turn multiple meals now (seal + bird) into a future meal that could potentially be stolen by scavengers.
- 4gotunameagain 3y ago
  From wikipedia: Up to 500 whole auks are packed into the seal skin, beaks and feathers included. As much air as possible is removed from the seal skin before it is sewn up and sealed with seal fat, which repels flies. It is then hidden in a heap of stones, with a large rock placed on top to keep the air out. Over the course of three months, the birds ferment, and are then eaten during the Arctic winter, particularly on birthdays and weddings. Things were rough up there
  - fbdab103 3y ago
    Well...that is certainly something. I am still bewildered as to how the method was discovered. Taking valuable seals and birds to run multi-month experiments does not seem like it would make you a popular fellow. Best case scenario, you discovered a way of making what sounds a vile, but technically edible, flesh paste. The extended quote from the Wikipedia page notes some people have died from preparing it improperly Polar explorer Knud Rasmussen's death is attributed to food poisoning by kiviaq.[5][6] In August 2013 several people died in Siorapaluk from eating kiviak that was made from eider rather than auk. Eider does not ferment as well as auk, and those who ate it contracted botulism.[7]
    - cperciva 3y ago
      I am still bewildered as to how the method was discovered. Hunting cultures often have periods of surplus. Most likely this wasn't so much deliberate fermentation as an attempt to store their surplus; the fact that it turned well was a happy accident.
- rolisz 3y ago
  Think about hakarl: icelandic rotten shark. It stinks to high heaven: I'm not kidding, a colleague brought a small sealed cup to the office and opened it. The whole floor (where 80+ people were seated) stank like crazy. Regular shark meat is poisonous. But if you bury it in the sand and leave it for 6 weeks, the toxin decomposes and humans no longer die from it. But it stinks. How hungry must have those Icelanders been that they tried this?
  - Tor3 3y ago
    Well.. I tried it in Iceland. In a restaurant. Looked like rubber cubes, didn't smell much, but unfortunately it tasted what it looked like (rubber).
  - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
    > Regular shark meat is poisonous What kind of shark is that? I grew up eating salted shark meat and it was the only kind of fish I'd eat as a kid.
nightfly 3y ago
Check out the manga/anime Moyashimon if you haven't already

joshuahaglund 3y ago

Iru, fermented locust beans, come from Africa. Tempeh comes from Indonesia. Seems like most fermented foods prefer somewhat warm temperatures

xolox 3y ago
I regularly make (grow) tempeh and koji and both require a food dehydrator to keep the temperature around 30°C for the duration of the fermentation (in my case, living in the Netherlands, so Western Europe). Both tempeh and koji are molds (mycelium that doesn't produce mushrooms). I also make milk kefir, water kefir, sourdough and kombucha and while none of these cultures require the higher temperatures, they do thrive in the higher temperatures. I also grow quite a few species of mushrooms and have learned that a lot of species incubate quite aggressively at higher temperatures (25-35°C).