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Who's dreaming now? https://twitter.com/tesla4k/status/1676077165983723520 https://twitter.com/tesla4k/status/1676077165983723520 "SpaceX primarily seems to b

Who's dreaming now? https://twitter.com/tesla4k/status/1676077165983723520 https://twitter.com/tesla4k/status/1676077165983723520 "SpaceX primarily seems to be selling a dream. $50M launch is a dream. Reusability is a dream. How do you respond to a dream? You let people wake up on their own. They (SpaceX) are not supermen. What they can do, we can do. - Ariane space exec, 2013"

ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
and that is why europe is so much poorer than us. we really let people dream big, fail and dream big again here and that is amazing.
- tayo42 3y ago
  Easy to dream big when you personally have billions of dollars. Normal people in the US aren't dreaming big or able to fail and take risks. If anything Europe has tons of social safety nets for people to make risky choices.
  - sgtnoodle 3y ago
    I have several friends that immigrated from Europe, and they've all made comments about their respective countries that suggest that's not really the case in practice.
  - boc 3y ago
    Sounds great in theory, but in practice we observe the opposite. Turns out having an bigger reward for taking a risk is a better motivator than having a softer cushion to land on if you fail...
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      You're both right. Having bigger risk/reward spread leads to more success cases and more broken people who risked everything and failed.
      - nicbou 3y ago
        Exactly. You remove the ceiling, but also the floor.
    - tayo42 3y ago
      That benefit only exists for the already rich that can tolerate that risk. Who comes from actual modest beginnings and started a company that became successful recently? Here were talking Elon who was already wealthy and managed to fail upward after making money getting fired from one of the first companies he was involved in.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- gostsamo 3y ago
  I'd say that not having two world wars on your soil also helps.
  - _fizz_buzz_ 3y ago
    It does, but the European and American economy have really diverged in the last 25 years. 25 years ago economies like Germany, Netherlands etc. were pretty much on par with the US economy (on per capita basis), which is not true anymore. And there wasn't a world war on European soil in the past 25 years. I would blame: - Mishandling the financial crises after 2008 (austerity measures) - Aging population (low birthrate + not enough immigrants) - Internet businesses really have an advantage in markets that are mono-lingual and most growth came from the internet in the past 25 years. - The EU exists, but the market is still very fragmented.
  - renewiltord 3y ago
    It's true, the US had to go civilize Europe twice. America is using a lighter hand this time, but that is also because America is relatively weaker now. If Europe needs the US to come civilize it a third time, I think it might not happen. They will simply descend into the barbarism of the great wars without America to come quell them into civilization.
    - zilti 3y ago
      That is one of the most "arrogant asshole" comments I've seen here on HN.
      - TMWNN 3y ago
        Truth is truth, no matter the tone it is given in.
        AlexeyBelov 3y ago
        Truth is truth, but that was not truth. Just saying it was does nothing.
up2isomorphism 3y ago
One needs to know ITAR to know these numbers are not that hard for Chinese launch services.
- throwaway48476 3y ago
  Chinese accounting is full of state owned companies selling to other state owned companies. It's hard to say what the 'real' cost is.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    If I am US company and I'm buying services from a Chinese company, what would I care what their real cost is? The reality is most large industry in the world is subsidized.
trhway 3y ago
reminds how some exec in 98 or 99 at Yahoo or another top portal at the time refused to buy Google because even though the Google was already the best the portal already had "80% as good" search engine and "as long as they have 80% as good as the best one they would do fine"
- nolongerthere 3y ago
  Shockingly, Yahoo is still a very profitable, popular property, even if the company itself isn’t doing anything of interest. Especially after Verizon trimmed all the non-essential staff.
- zilti 3y ago
  And look at Google Search now, it's become dogshit. Sure, it took 20 years, but still.

ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago

and that is why europe is so much poorer than us. we really let people dream big, fail and dream big again here and that is amazing.

tayo42 3y ago
Easy to dream big when you personally have billions of dollars. Normal people in the US aren't dreaming big or able to fail and take risks. If anything Europe has tons of social safety nets for people to make risky choices.
- sgtnoodle 3y ago
  I have several friends that immigrated from Europe, and they've all made comments about their respective countries that suggest that's not really the case in practice.
- boc 3y ago
  Sounds great in theory, but in practice we observe the opposite. Turns out having an bigger reward for taking a risk is a better motivator than having a softer cushion to land on if you fail...
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    You're both right. Having bigger risk/reward spread leads to more success cases and more broken people who risked everything and failed.
    - nicbou 3y ago
      Exactly. You remove the ceiling, but also the floor.
  - tayo42 3y ago
    That benefit only exists for the already rich that can tolerate that risk. Who comes from actual modest beginnings and started a company that became successful recently? Here were talking Elon who was already wealthy and managed to fail upward after making money getting fired from one of the first companies he was involved in.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
gostsamo 3y ago
I'd say that not having two world wars on your soil also helps.
- _fizz_buzz_ 3y ago
  It does, but the European and American economy have really diverged in the last 25 years. 25 years ago economies like Germany, Netherlands etc. were pretty much on par with the US economy (on per capita basis), which is not true anymore. And there wasn't a world war on European soil in the past 25 years. I would blame: - Mishandling the financial crises after 2008 (austerity measures) - Aging population (low birthrate + not enough immigrants) - Internet businesses really have an advantage in markets that are mono-lingual and most growth came from the internet in the past 25 years. - The EU exists, but the market is still very fragmented.
- renewiltord 3y ago
  It's true, the US had to go civilize Europe twice. America is using a lighter hand this time, but that is also because America is relatively weaker now. If Europe needs the US to come civilize it a third time, I think it might not happen. They will simply descend into the barbarism of the great wars without America to come quell them into civilization.
  - zilti 3y ago
    That is one of the most "arrogant asshole" comments I've seen here on HN.
    - TMWNN 3y ago
      Truth is truth, no matter the tone it is given in.
      - AlexeyBelov 3y ago
        Truth is truth, but that was not truth. Just saying it was does nothing.

up2isomorphism 3y ago

One needs to know ITAR to know these numbers are not that hard for Chinese launch services.

throwaway48476 3y ago
Chinese accounting is full of state owned companies selling to other state owned companies. It's hard to say what the 'real' cost is.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  If I am US company and I'm buying services from a Chinese company, what would I care what their real cost is? The reality is most large industry in the world is subsidized.

trhway 3y ago

reminds how some exec in 98 or 99 at Yahoo or another top portal at the time refused to buy Google because even though the Google was already the best the portal already had "80% as good" search engine and "as long as they have 80% as good as the best one they would do fine"

nolongerthere 3y ago
Shockingly, Yahoo is still a very profitable, popular property, even if the company itself isn’t doing anything of interest. Especially after Verizon trimmed all the non-essential staff.
zilti 3y ago
And look at Google Search now, it's become dogshit. Sure, it took 20 years, but still.