6 ms·

There is a weird crowd of people on the internet that have convinced themselves that seed oils are the cause of many ailments. It doesn’t have a ton of scienti

There is a weird crowd of people on the internet that have convinced themselves that seed oils are the cause of many ailments. It doesn’t have a ton of scientific backing but Joe Rogan promoted some guru doctor a while back that spread the idea to a lot more people.

Dig1t 3y ago
>Joe Rogan promoted You mean he did an episode where he had a conversation with the doctor? Or was the doctor a sponsor of the show where he advertised products? I don't think simply having a conversation about an idea counts as promotion. Advertising is another matter though..
- tux3 3y ago
  Having a conversation in a very public place can certainly end up promoting ideas Take a popular piece of media, inject a conversation about fringe ideas with some crackpot that would have very limited reach otherwise. This gives very high visibility to very fringe ideas. Giving undue weight to fringe viewpoints is promoting those viewpoints.
  - Dig1t 3y ago
    Promotion: "activity that supports or provides active encouragement for the furtherance of a cause" Simply discussing an idea, even giving undue weight, is not promotion. Conflating the two is dangerous as it provides justification for censorship. The free exchange of ideas and information is the only way a democracy can survive. If the idea is bad or wrong, it will be debated and ultimately defeated in the marketplace of ideas.
    - lpapez 3y ago
      > If the idea is bad or wrong, it will be debated and ultimately defeated in the marketplace of ideas. This implies the existence of a marketplace of ideas where people can freely trade thoughts. It was not the case in the past (i.e. you go to jail or are excommunicated for dissent), and it is increasingly not the case in the modern world (i.e. the algorithm is telling you what they want you to hear). You cannot have a free marketplace of ideas in a world where the forums these ideas are being discussed have an incentive of causing conflict and keeping you engaged. This is not an attack on you or anything, I just think we should all be more aware that everything we hear today has an agenda hidden behind it, which is malicious more often than honest.
    - Nursie 3y ago
      > If the idea is bad or wrong, it will be debated and ultimately defeated in the marketplace of ideas. Sure, and I have a bridge to sell you. The marketplace of ideas is a myth predicated on the willingness of participants to promote and evaluate their ideas honestly, and due to that honesty to stop promoting such ideas when they are shown to be wrong or inadequate. It requires participants to even be interested in how good their ideas are and be open to discussing them and changing views if these ideas are found wanting. Observing real life, what we have is people flooding the zone with unmitigated faeces, either for profit or idealogical motives. They are uninterested in whether these ideas are true, good or even useful, whether there are 'better' ideas, and they often dominate through volume and repetition. Tribal cohesion ensures the spread of ideas as much or more than honest debate. The marketplace of ideas is dead, if it ever really existed. A fairytale for children.
    - watwut 3y ago
      > If the idea is bad or wrong, it will be debated and ultimately defeated in the marketplace of ideas. And saying "Rogan promoted quack doctor making nonscientific claims again and thus the idea spread" is necessary part of that process. Too many people think that "marketplace of ideas" means "I get to spread lies and other side can not say that I am a liar".
- electrondood 3y ago
  When you have a massive megaphone, your choices have impact at scale. So "having a conversation" is functionally identical to promoting, as is "just asking questions" if you're Tucker Carlson, or "exercising your free speech" if you're Elon Musk amplifying easily disproven talking points about immigration, etc. Noblesse oblige.
- caymanjim 3y ago
  The problem with Joe Rogan is that he's not smart and his audience is not smart. He's a pseudo-intellectual. He gifts crackpots an enormous audience of gullible people. He lends credibility to them with softball interviews devoid of critical analysis. He's spoon-feeding suckers what they want to hear. He couches it all in a thin veneer of balanced reporting and barstool philosophizing, under the guise of fairness, but he's elevating ideas that have no business being elevated. It's even worse than outright promotion.
  - ineedaj0b 3y ago
    If he’s not smart why’s he so successful. Why did he have a job hosting fear factor. A job hosting UFC. A job being a stand up comic. He’s also short - which I thought meant the cards are stacked against you? He also has a black belt. They don’t give those out. He currently has the biggest, arguably most successful podcast of all time. But he’s not smart right? Years and years of winning but he’s not smart. You are capable of thinking and you are smart but that doesn’t mean you are right. Don’t conflate the two How can one conclude he isn’t smart? Are you politically charged against him. Has he wronged you or your loved ones? Would you say he was not ‘smart’ if you had write a report for a 3 Letter agency? You can get to the top once if you’re lucky. But if you keep ending up there…
    - ffgjgf1 3y ago
      > Why did he have a job hosting fear factor. A job hosting UFC That has no relationship with someone being able to have meaningful discussions on complex topics. Probably even the opposite..
      - ineedaj0b 3y ago
        You don’t get a job in front of camera unless you’re good looking or talented. Rogan was not good looking.
        ffgjgf1 3y ago
        He’s certainly talented. However again that has almost bo relationship to being able to have meaningful discussions on highly complex topics.
- theshackleford 3y ago
  > I don't think yes.
- bratbag 3y ago
  I think it stops being just a conversation when you make the choice to broadcast it.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  ‘I’m just asking questions’ might be one of the more toxic lines I’ve come across in the last few years.
zer00eyz 3y ago
The saga of John Yudkin and Pure White and Deadly should give you pause. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yudkin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yudkin > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure,_White_and_Deadly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure,_White_and_Deadly Or you know the article on highly processed foods that made the home page the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39746915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39746915 ... Could the seed oils thing be a bit much? Sure. Could canola and its use be part of the problem as a highly processed food. Maybe. Is any one doing the research? None of us know... Why people have some aversion to seed oils, a highly processed food: "Canola oil is made at a processing facility by slightly heating and then crushing the seed.[34] Almost all commercial canola oil is then extracted using hexane solvent, which is recovered at the end of processing. Finally, the canola oil is refined using water precipitation and organic acid to remove gums and free fatty acids, filtering to remove color, and deodorizing using steam distillation. Sometimes the oil is also bleached for a lighter color." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed_oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed_oil I'm not sure that sounds like food...
- Nursie 3y ago
  > I'm not sure that sounds like food... A lot of things don't when you describe them in such detailed, clinical ways. You can also buy (just like you can with quality olive oils) cold pressed canola which is manufactured simply by crushing the seed. The seed oil folks would have it that this is no better, AFAICT.

Dig1t 3y ago

>Joe Rogan promoted You mean he did an episode where he had a conversation with the doctor? Or was the doctor a sponsor of the show where he advertised products? I don't think simply having a conversation about an idea counts as promotion. Advertising is another matter though..

tux3 3y ago
Having a conversation in a very public place can certainly end up promoting ideas Take a popular piece of media, inject a conversation about fringe ideas with some crackpot that would have very limited reach otherwise. This gives very high visibility to very fringe ideas. Giving undue weight to fringe viewpoints is promoting those viewpoints.
- Dig1t 3y ago
  Promotion: "activity that supports or provides active encouragement for the furtherance of a cause" Simply discussing an idea, even giving undue weight, is not promotion. Conflating the two is dangerous as it provides justification for censorship. The free exchange of ideas and information is the only way a democracy can survive. If the idea is bad or wrong, it will be debated and ultimately defeated in the marketplace of ideas.
  - lpapez 3y ago
    > If the idea is bad or wrong, it will be debated and ultimately defeated in the marketplace of ideas. This implies the existence of a marketplace of ideas where people can freely trade thoughts. It was not the case in the past (i.e. you go to jail or are excommunicated for dissent), and it is increasingly not the case in the modern world (i.e. the algorithm is telling you what they want you to hear). You cannot have a free marketplace of ideas in a world where the forums these ideas are being discussed have an incentive of causing conflict and keeping you engaged. This is not an attack on you or anything, I just think we should all be more aware that everything we hear today has an agenda hidden behind it, which is malicious more often than honest.
  - Nursie 3y ago
    > If the idea is bad or wrong, it will be debated and ultimately defeated in the marketplace of ideas. Sure, and I have a bridge to sell you. The marketplace of ideas is a myth predicated on the willingness of participants to promote and evaluate their ideas honestly, and due to that honesty to stop promoting such ideas when they are shown to be wrong or inadequate. It requires participants to even be interested in how good their ideas are and be open to discussing them and changing views if these ideas are found wanting. Observing real life, what we have is people flooding the zone with unmitigated faeces, either for profit or idealogical motives. They are uninterested in whether these ideas are true, good or even useful, whether there are 'better' ideas, and they often dominate through volume and repetition. Tribal cohesion ensures the spread of ideas as much or more than honest debate. The marketplace of ideas is dead, if it ever really existed. A fairytale for children.
  - watwut 3y ago
    > If the idea is bad or wrong, it will be debated and ultimately defeated in the marketplace of ideas. And saying "Rogan promoted quack doctor making nonscientific claims again and thus the idea spread" is necessary part of that process. Too many people think that "marketplace of ideas" means "I get to spread lies and other side can not say that I am a liar".
electrondood 3y ago
When you have a massive megaphone, your choices have impact at scale. So "having a conversation" is functionally identical to promoting, as is "just asking questions" if you're Tucker Carlson, or "exercising your free speech" if you're Elon Musk amplifying easily disproven talking points about immigration, etc. Noblesse oblige.
caymanjim 3y ago
The problem with Joe Rogan is that he's not smart and his audience is not smart. He's a pseudo-intellectual. He gifts crackpots an enormous audience of gullible people. He lends credibility to them with softball interviews devoid of critical analysis. He's spoon-feeding suckers what they want to hear. He couches it all in a thin veneer of balanced reporting and barstool philosophizing, under the guise of fairness, but he's elevating ideas that have no business being elevated. It's even worse than outright promotion.
- ineedaj0b 3y ago
  If he’s not smart why’s he so successful. Why did he have a job hosting fear factor. A job hosting UFC. A job being a stand up comic. He’s also short - which I thought meant the cards are stacked against you? He also has a black belt. They don’t give those out. He currently has the biggest, arguably most successful podcast of all time. But he’s not smart right? Years and years of winning but he’s not smart. You are capable of thinking and you are smart but that doesn’t mean you are right. Don’t conflate the two How can one conclude he isn’t smart? Are you politically charged against him. Has he wronged you or your loved ones? Would you say he was not ‘smart’ if you had write a report for a 3 Letter agency? You can get to the top once if you’re lucky. But if you keep ending up there…
  - ffgjgf1 3y ago
    > Why did he have a job hosting fear factor. A job hosting UFC That has no relationship with someone being able to have meaningful discussions on complex topics. Probably even the opposite..
    - ineedaj0b 3y ago
      You don’t get a job in front of camera unless you’re good looking or talented. Rogan was not good looking.
      - ffgjgf1 3y ago
        He’s certainly talented. However again that has almost bo relationship to being able to have meaningful discussions on highly complex topics.
theshackleford 3y ago
> I don't think yes.
bratbag 3y ago
I think it stops being just a conversation when you make the choice to broadcast it.
lostlogin 3y ago
‘I’m just asking questions’ might be one of the more toxic lines I’ve come across in the last few years.

zer00eyz 3y ago

The saga of John Yudkin and Pure White and Deadly should give you pause. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yudkin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yudkin > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure,_White_and_Deadly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure,_White_and_Deadly Or you know the article on highly processed foods that made the home page the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39746915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39746915 ... Could the seed oils thing be a bit much? Sure. Could canola and its use be part of the problem as a highly processed food. Maybe. Is any one doing the research? None of us know... Why people have some aversion to seed oils, a highly processed food: "Canola oil is made at a processing facility by slightly heating and then crushing the seed.[34] Almost all commercial canola oil is then extracted using hexane solvent, which is recovered at the end of processing. Finally, the canola oil is refined using water precipitation and organic acid to remove gums and free fatty acids, filtering to remove color, and deodorizing using steam distillation. Sometimes the oil is also bleached for a lighter color." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed_oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed_oil I'm not sure that sounds like food...

Nursie 3y ago
> I'm not sure that sounds like food... A lot of things don't when you describe them in such detailed, clinical ways. You can also buy (just like you can with quality olive oils) cold pressed canola which is manufactured simply by crushing the seed. The seed oil folks would have it that this is no better, AFAICT.