4 ms·

I don't know what it's like in the states, but if you do that here in the UK then some idiot will jump into the gap in a bid to try and get a couple of car-leng

I don't know what it's like in the states, but if you do that here in the UK then some idiot will jump into the gap in a bid to try and get a couple of car-lengths ahead and then you're forced to brake anyway.

kube-system 3y ago
It very much depends on the locale in the US.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
Once a road hits a certain density of vehicles, the only way to fit more vehicles on the road is to close the gaps between the vehicles. One cannot realistically expect urban regions to have drivers that leave large spaces of road empty, it wouldn’t back up the congestion even further onto other roads. It’s especially exacerbated because all vehicles and drivers have different reaction times and acceleration, so it’s inevitable that gaps will increase and decrease. Taking advantage of the gaps actually increases the road’s throughput, and is a sufficient tradeoff to risk and energy efficiency for almost all drivers worldwide.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Highway safety people who work for the do expect that. If their is a problem that is their problem not mine. My problem is arriving safe. Read the above as a rant for better transit.
- harkinian 3y ago
  Depends on the type of traffic. You're describing gridlock, but temporary jams are more common on freeways. In those situations, if everyone left extra following space, it'd actually improve the overall throughput since people take extra time to stop then start. In some places, the police or automatic signs will even tell people to slow down in advance when there's a jam ahead.
- mullingitover 3y ago
  > Once a road hits a certain density of vehicles, the only way to fit more vehicles on the road is to close the gaps between the vehicles. Even better is to get the cars off the road by having good flow and not jamming it up. "Closing the gaps" means tailgating or switching lanes to get into those sweet, wide open spaces. These are the primary causes of phantom traffic jams on congested freeways. There's a pretty good deep dive covering this[1]. [1] https://www.autoblog.com/2022/11/03/phantom-traffic-jams-prevention-following-distance/ https://www.autoblog.com/2022/11/03/phantom-traffic-jams-pre...
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    >Even better is to get the cars off the road by having good flow and not jamming it up. This is not practical in most cases of congestion, which are caused by the number of vehicles exceeding the road's capacity. There is no other choice after a certain point, vehicles will begin to pile up and speed up and slow down creating the traffic waves. That video is correct for only a minority of times where the road capacity has not been met, but people are accelerating and decelerating too fast causing the traffic waves. However, during times of too many vehicles on the road, such as rush hour, there is nothing anyone can do, other than use as much of the road as possible (i.e. less empty space).
    - bluGill 3y ago
      > However, during times of too many vehicles on the road, such as rush hour, there is nothing anyone can do, other than use as much of the road as possible (i.e. less empty space). Your analysis misses safety and so while your facts are correct your conclusion is wrong. When more cars want to use a section of road than the road can handle you must not put more cars into the empty space without all the cars slowing down (which in turn means the road can handle less cars per time). I know that is not what everyone does, but they (we) are wrong.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        I intended for “risk” to be short for “safety risk” in the below portion of my original comment: > Taking advantage of the gaps actually increases the road’s throughput, and is a sufficient tradeoff to risk and energy efficiency for almost all drivers worldwide. > the road can handle you must not put more cars into the empty space without all the cars slowing down (which in turn means the road can handle less cars per time) I agree that there is a range where cars weaving in and out causing people to brake unnecessarily causes more congestion, but there is also a point where there is so much congestion that “filling in the gaps” becomes the optimal move, because the road’s capacity has been reached and maintaining large gaps would simply push congestion further back onto other roads.
bluGill 3y ago
Two peopla will but then nobody else does for a whileeso it works out. Meanwhile I'm safer

kube-system 3y ago

It very much depends on the locale in the US.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

Once a road hits a certain density of vehicles, the only way to fit more vehicles on the road is to close the gaps between the vehicles. One cannot realistically expect urban regions to have drivers that leave large spaces of road empty, it wouldn’t back up the congestion even further onto other roads. It’s especially exacerbated because all vehicles and drivers have different reaction times and acceleration, so it’s inevitable that gaps will increase and decrease. Taking advantage of the gaps actually increases the road’s throughput, and is a sufficient tradeoff to risk and energy efficiency for almost all drivers worldwide.

bluGill 3y ago
Highway safety people who work for the do expect that. If their is a problem that is their problem not mine. My problem is arriving safe. Read the above as a rant for better transit.
harkinian 3y ago
Depends on the type of traffic. You're describing gridlock, but temporary jams are more common on freeways. In those situations, if everyone left extra following space, it'd actually improve the overall throughput since people take extra time to stop then start. In some places, the police or automatic signs will even tell people to slow down in advance when there's a jam ahead.
mullingitover 3y ago
> Once a road hits a certain density of vehicles, the only way to fit more vehicles on the road is to close the gaps between the vehicles. Even better is to get the cars off the road by having good flow and not jamming it up. "Closing the gaps" means tailgating or switching lanes to get into those sweet, wide open spaces. These are the primary causes of phantom traffic jams on congested freeways. There's a pretty good deep dive covering this[1]. [1] https://www.autoblog.com/2022/11/03/phantom-traffic-jams-prevention-following-distance/ https://www.autoblog.com/2022/11/03/phantom-traffic-jams-pre...
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  >Even better is to get the cars off the road by having good flow and not jamming it up. This is not practical in most cases of congestion, which are caused by the number of vehicles exceeding the road's capacity. There is no other choice after a certain point, vehicles will begin to pile up and speed up and slow down creating the traffic waves. That video is correct for only a minority of times where the road capacity has not been met, but people are accelerating and decelerating too fast causing the traffic waves. However, during times of too many vehicles on the road, such as rush hour, there is nothing anyone can do, other than use as much of the road as possible (i.e. less empty space).
  - bluGill 3y ago
    > However, during times of too many vehicles on the road, such as rush hour, there is nothing anyone can do, other than use as much of the road as possible (i.e. less empty space). Your analysis misses safety and so while your facts are correct your conclusion is wrong. When more cars want to use a section of road than the road can handle you must not put more cars into the empty space without all the cars slowing down (which in turn means the road can handle less cars per time). I know that is not what everyone does, but they (we) are wrong.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      I intended for “risk” to be short for “safety risk” in the below portion of my original comment: > Taking advantage of the gaps actually increases the road’s throughput, and is a sufficient tradeoff to risk and energy efficiency for almost all drivers worldwide. > the road can handle you must not put more cars into the empty space without all the cars slowing down (which in turn means the road can handle less cars per time) I agree that there is a range where cars weaving in and out causing people to brake unnecessarily causes more congestion, but there is also a point where there is so much congestion that “filling in the gaps” becomes the optimal move, because the road’s capacity has been reached and maintaining large gaps would simply push congestion further back onto other roads.

bluGill 3y ago

Two peopla will but then nobody else does for a whileeso it works out. Meanwhile I'm safer