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I used to love driving a manual transmission, but if you live in a city you have to be a masochist to use them. I drove a six speed on a 30-40 minute commute on

I used to love driving a manual transmission, but if you live in a city you have to be a masochist to use them. I drove a six speed on a 30-40 minute commute on the 101 in LA for just a few months and started developing knee pain from constantly using the clutch. I wish Honda made a Civic Type R with a DCT.

bluGill 3y ago
I found the clutch was easier once I started finding the average speed of traffic and did that instead of changing speed to keep up. Those large gaps were safer too.
- harkinian 3y ago
  People abuse the gaps in some places.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Also known as using available road capacity.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - harkinian 3y ago
      I was thinking about people who squeeze in when you're already at min safe following distance. But also, no it doesn't always help the flow of traffic to follow as close as possible.
      - HPsquared 3y ago
        Smaller gaps means higher throughput, at a given speed.
        bluGill 3y ago
        At the expense of safety. One of the reasons why cars kill so many people every year.
        harkinian 3y ago
        It's not just safety. Small-yet-safe gaps exacerbate temporary jams on highways, or possibly even create them.
        HPsquared 3y ago
        Indeed it's a balance, as in most things. Raw numbers against safety and stability.
- glitchcrab 3y ago
  I don't know what it's like in the states, but if you do that here in the UK then some idiot will jump into the gap in a bid to try and get a couple of car-lengths ahead and then you're forced to brake anyway.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    It very much depends on the locale in the US.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Once a road hits a certain density of vehicles, the only way to fit more vehicles on the road is to close the gaps between the vehicles. One cannot realistically expect urban regions to have drivers that leave large spaces of road empty, it wouldn’t back up the congestion even further onto other roads. It’s especially exacerbated because all vehicles and drivers have different reaction times and acceleration, so it’s inevitable that gaps will increase and decrease. Taking advantage of the gaps actually increases the road’s throughput, and is a sufficient tradeoff to risk and energy efficiency for almost all drivers worldwide.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Highway safety people who work for the do expect that. If their is a problem that is their problem not mine. My problem is arriving safe. Read the above as a rant for better transit.
    - harkinian 3y ago
      Depends on the type of traffic. You're describing gridlock, but temporary jams are more common on freeways. In those situations, if everyone left extra following space, it'd actually improve the overall throughput since people take extra time to stop then start. In some places, the police or automatic signs will even tell people to slow down in advance when there's a jam ahead.
    - mullingitover 3y ago
      > Once a road hits a certain density of vehicles, the only way to fit more vehicles on the road is to close the gaps between the vehicles. Even better is to get the cars off the road by having good flow and not jamming it up. "Closing the gaps" means tailgating or switching lanes to get into those sweet, wide open spaces. These are the primary causes of phantom traffic jams on congested freeways. There's a pretty good deep dive covering this[1]. [1] https://www.autoblog.com/2022/11/03/phantom-traffic-jams-prevention-following-distance/ https://www.autoblog.com/2022/11/03/phantom-traffic-jams-pre...
Swizec 3y ago
How hard are you pressing the clutch that it gives you knee pain? I did my first 10 years of driving in a manual and when you get a hang of the gearbox you barely need the clutch at all. Just a light tap, barely disengage anything. Nowadays the sequential dogbox in my motorcycle is my fav. Similar to what rally cars use. You only need the clutch when stopping, otherwise you can just jam between gears with a light flick of the throttle to relieve tension. No electronics. Wish nonracing cars came with that option. I think some 90’s supercars have it.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  Crawling along below 1st gear speed, probably. This is not only hard on your knee, but also on the clutch.
- harkinian 3y ago
  You always need the clutch to start/stop, though.
Const-me 3y ago
> if you live in a city you have to be a masochist to use them I think in the mountains it’s the opposite. I wouldn’t want to drive 1km of elevation down without using the engine to control the speed. Brakes in most cars aren’t designed to engage continuously for long time, they overheat and may eventually fail.
- harkinian 3y ago
  Automatic with a gear select will handle that pretty well.
  - harkinian 3y ago
    Also, many newer cars will automatically downshift if they think you want to engine-brake. Usually based on the fact that your foot is off the gas and on the brake for a long period of time.

bluGill 3y ago

I found the clutch was easier once I started finding the average speed of traffic and did that instead of changing speed to keep up. Those large gaps were safer too.

harkinian 3y ago
People abuse the gaps in some places.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Also known as using available road capacity.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - harkinian 3y ago
    I was thinking about people who squeeze in when you're already at min safe following distance. But also, no it doesn't always help the flow of traffic to follow as close as possible.
    - HPsquared 3y ago
      Smaller gaps means higher throughput, at a given speed.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        At the expense of safety. One of the reasons why cars kill so many people every year.
        harkinian 3y ago
        It's not just safety. Small-yet-safe gaps exacerbate temporary jams on highways, or possibly even create them.
        HPsquared 3y ago
        Indeed it's a balance, as in most things. Raw numbers against safety and stability.
glitchcrab 3y ago
I don't know what it's like in the states, but if you do that here in the UK then some idiot will jump into the gap in a bid to try and get a couple of car-lengths ahead and then you're forced to brake anyway.
- kube-system 3y ago
  It very much depends on the locale in the US.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Once a road hits a certain density of vehicles, the only way to fit more vehicles on the road is to close the gaps between the vehicles. One cannot realistically expect urban regions to have drivers that leave large spaces of road empty, it wouldn’t back up the congestion even further onto other roads. It’s especially exacerbated because all vehicles and drivers have different reaction times and acceleration, so it’s inevitable that gaps will increase and decrease. Taking advantage of the gaps actually increases the road’s throughput, and is a sufficient tradeoff to risk and energy efficiency for almost all drivers worldwide.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Highway safety people who work for the do expect that. If their is a problem that is their problem not mine. My problem is arriving safe. Read the above as a rant for better transit.
  - harkinian 3y ago
    Depends on the type of traffic. You're describing gridlock, but temporary jams are more common on freeways. In those situations, if everyone left extra following space, it'd actually improve the overall throughput since people take extra time to stop then start. In some places, the police or automatic signs will even tell people to slow down in advance when there's a jam ahead.
  - mullingitover 3y ago
    > Once a road hits a certain density of vehicles, the only way to fit more vehicles on the road is to close the gaps between the vehicles. Even better is to get the cars off the road by having good flow and not jamming it up. "Closing the gaps" means tailgating or switching lanes to get into those sweet, wide open spaces. These are the primary causes of phantom traffic jams on congested freeways. There's a pretty good deep dive covering this[1]. [1] https://www.autoblog.com/2022/11/03/phantom-traffic-jams-prevention-following-distance/ https://www.autoblog.com/2022/11/03/phantom-traffic-jams-pre...

Swizec 3y ago

How hard are you pressing the clutch that it gives you knee pain? I did my first 10 years of driving in a manual and when you get a hang of the gearbox you barely need the clutch at all. Just a light tap, barely disengage anything. Nowadays the sequential dogbox in my motorcycle is my fav. Similar to what rally cars use. You only need the clutch when stopping, otherwise you can just jam between gears with a light flick of the throttle to relieve tension. No electronics. Wish nonracing cars came with that option. I think some 90’s supercars have it.

HPsquared 3y ago
Crawling along below 1st gear speed, probably. This is not only hard on your knee, but also on the clutch.
harkinian 3y ago
You always need the clutch to start/stop, though.

Const-me 3y ago

> if you live in a city you have to be a masochist to use them I think in the mountains it’s the opposite. I wouldn’t want to drive 1km of elevation down without using the engine to control the speed. Brakes in most cars aren’t designed to engage continuously for long time, they overheat and may eventually fail.

harkinian 3y ago
Automatic with a gear select will handle that pretty well.
- harkinian 3y ago
  Also, many newer cars will automatically downshift if they think you want to engine-brake. Usually based on the fact that your foot is off the gas and on the brake for a long period of time.