3 ms·

It's clear that both biological sentient beings and sentient being made in factories in the future will essentially be two sides of the same coin, differing onl

It's clear that both biological sentient beings and sentient being made in factories in the future will essentially be two sides of the same coin, differing only in their physical composition. Humans today operate as biological AI, powered by cells, and the sentient beings instead operate on transistors. As we progress toward a future where both sentient beings exhibit comparable intelligence, emotions, and learned experiences, the distinction between the two becomes increasingly blurred. It wouldn't be crazy to think that we'll program a person made out of transistors to go through the same life as a biological human. In such a scenario, why should we consider the sentient being made of cells inherently superior to its transistor-based counterpart?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
arijun 3y ago
I don’t think it’s a given that people do. Also what does that have to do with the article?
spr-alex 3y ago
proof left as exercise to the reader
smokel 3y ago
Hm, no. To start, cells are able to replicate themselves, whereas most silicon used today is not even close to doing so. The story you suggest seems to be built on a limited understanding of the processes involved. It's pretty hard to predict the future, especially given incorrect assumptions.
- KoolKat23 3y ago
  Cell division is a solved problem. Install new ram module and ctrl+c, ctrl+v from backup, done.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    That's "solved" in the way that viruses "solved" life; I think we might want higher standards than that. Un/fortunately (depending on who you ask), there's also a lot of automation being developed for every stage of the industrial processes from "where do we even look for the right rocks to get out of the ground?" to "here's the RAM chip you wanted to stick in your socket".
    - KoolKat23 3y ago
      My point is, it's irrelevant. Yes we can't replicate the process of cell replication but in this case it isn't necessary. We can achieve the end objective (which is to repair/extend) through other means, this is akin to just replacing organs with factory build versions (memories pre-installed too).
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  Compute is substrate independent. We use transistors because they are wicked fast and efficient. But a 4090 built from metal balls and wood blocks would still be able to perform all the same calculations. Or a 4090 made by drawing X's and O's on a (really massive) piece of paper. Or one made by connecting a bunch of neurons together for that matter. Saying cells can multiply doesn't really mean anything, unless is gives ability to access some higher form of compute that is outside the reach of Turing machines. Which it doesn't, because if it did, it would be supernatural.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    Analogue computers aren't equivalent to Turing machines.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      No physical computer is a perfect Turing machine, thanks to random noise. Analogue computers can always implement a Turing machine to within the bounds of that noise (and that's how transistors, which are really analogue devices, get used for digital signal and information processing). A computer that used infinite-precision real numbers would be more powerful than any Turing machine, however unlimited-precision real numbers in the physical universe are prohibited by the holographic principle and the Bekenstein bound so we can't have them.
  - Teever 3y ago
    Compute may be substrate independent, but that isn't the point that the person you're replying to is refuting. > It's clear that both biological sentient beings and sentient being made in factories in the future will essentially be two sides of the same coin... > why should we consider the sentient being made of cells inherently superior to its transistor-based counterpart? The defining characteristic of life as we know it, and unique quality of Earth as compared to other planets as we have measured them is the ability to self replicate, and the presence of self replicating matter. Supposedly a single cell created all life on earth and is therefore directly responsible for every facet of the nature of Earth today. Over hundreds of millions of years the entire atmosphere, and entire surface of the earth as well as unmeasured parts of the sub surface of earth have been completely reshaped and defined by living cells all descended from that original cell. We're very likely able to create human level intelligence or even super human level intelligence that operates in a factory produced robot body that can survive a human level life span with some sort of maintenance comparable to that of a mechanic/surgeon but if that being needs a factory to generate parts or progeny then it is intrinsically lacking compared to self-replicating cellular life. Self-replication is a powerful ability that is intrinsic to life and deeply related to intelligent systems. As fabulous as a 4090 may be to us at this point in time, it is incomparable to a group of entities such as a humans that can create a civilization that can make a 4090, whatever material that 4090 may be made of. A far more profoundly fascinating object is the factory that can make robots that can operate the factory that can make more of the robots, and better. And that's what multi-cellular life really is. Until a 4090 type device can make more of itself and other by-products like multi-cellular life, the multi-cellular life that can make more of itself and by-products like a 4090 type device is intrinsically better.
nickpsecurity 3y ago
It’s not clear at all. So far, the only sentient, intelligent beings are the ones God made. His Word (Bible) said He made us for Him with predictions for the end times. AI takeover isn’t in there. Also, it implies (a) we won’t ever observe an act of evolution that produces anything like us and (b) any artificial intelligence will likewise require brilliant, intelligent designers to work and be maintained. So far, all these AI’s with a tiny fraction of human capabilities require brilliant designers in fine-tuned environments, like we did. We’ve also observed billions of human and non-human births with no new kinds of animals coming out of them. So, the Word of God is supported by billions of observations plus every AI ever designed while evolutionary or singularity-type views are not. That’s despite so many comments in these discussions referencing evolutionary or mechanical explanations as if they’ve been proven instead of disproven by observations. So, put your trust in Jesus Christ, receive the Spirit of God our Creator, and find out for yourself what’s special about us. Your life will be much more than the product of a biological, cellular process. God is powerful. You’ll see His work in a new light after you personally know Him.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

arijun 3y ago

I don’t think it’s a given that people do. Also what does that have to do with the article?

spr-alex 3y ago

proof left as exercise to the reader

smokel 3y ago

Hm, no. To start, cells are able to replicate themselves, whereas most silicon used today is not even close to doing so. The story you suggest seems to be built on a limited understanding of the processes involved. It's pretty hard to predict the future, especially given incorrect assumptions.

KoolKat23 3y ago
Cell division is a solved problem. Install new ram module and ctrl+c, ctrl+v from backup, done.
- ben_w 3y ago
  That's "solved" in the way that viruses "solved" life; I think we might want higher standards than that. Un/fortunately (depending on who you ask), there's also a lot of automation being developed for every stage of the industrial processes from "where do we even look for the right rocks to get out of the ground?" to "here's the RAM chip you wanted to stick in your socket".
  - KoolKat23 3y ago
    My point is, it's irrelevant. Yes we can't replicate the process of cell replication but in this case it isn't necessary. We can achieve the end objective (which is to repair/extend) through other means, this is akin to just replacing organs with factory build versions (memories pre-installed too).
Workaccount2 3y ago
Compute is substrate independent. We use transistors because they are wicked fast and efficient. But a 4090 built from metal balls and wood blocks would still be able to perform all the same calculations. Or a 4090 made by drawing X's and O's on a (really massive) piece of paper. Or one made by connecting a bunch of neurons together for that matter. Saying cells can multiply doesn't really mean anything, unless is gives ability to access some higher form of compute that is outside the reach of Turing machines. Which it doesn't, because if it did, it would be supernatural.
- Jensson 3y ago
  Analogue computers aren't equivalent to Turing machines.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    No physical computer is a perfect Turing machine, thanks to random noise. Analogue computers can always implement a Turing machine to within the bounds of that noise (and that's how transistors, which are really analogue devices, get used for digital signal and information processing). A computer that used infinite-precision real numbers would be more powerful than any Turing machine, however unlimited-precision real numbers in the physical universe are prohibited by the holographic principle and the Bekenstein bound so we can't have them.
- Teever 3y ago
  Compute may be substrate independent, but that isn't the point that the person you're replying to is refuting. > It's clear that both biological sentient beings and sentient being made in factories in the future will essentially be two sides of the same coin... > why should we consider the sentient being made of cells inherently superior to its transistor-based counterpart? The defining characteristic of life as we know it, and unique quality of Earth as compared to other planets as we have measured them is the ability to self replicate, and the presence of self replicating matter. Supposedly a single cell created all life on earth and is therefore directly responsible for every facet of the nature of Earth today. Over hundreds of millions of years the entire atmosphere, and entire surface of the earth as well as unmeasured parts of the sub surface of earth have been completely reshaped and defined by living cells all descended from that original cell. We're very likely able to create human level intelligence or even super human level intelligence that operates in a factory produced robot body that can survive a human level life span with some sort of maintenance comparable to that of a mechanic/surgeon but if that being needs a factory to generate parts or progeny then it is intrinsically lacking compared to self-replicating cellular life. Self-replication is a powerful ability that is intrinsic to life and deeply related to intelligent systems. As fabulous as a 4090 may be to us at this point in time, it is incomparable to a group of entities such as a humans that can create a civilization that can make a 4090, whatever material that 4090 may be made of. A far more profoundly fascinating object is the factory that can make robots that can operate the factory that can make more of the robots, and better. And that's what multi-cellular life really is. Until a 4090 type device can make more of itself and other by-products like multi-cellular life, the multi-cellular life that can make more of itself and by-products like a 4090 type device is intrinsically better.

nickpsecurity 3y ago

It’s not clear at all. So far, the only sentient, intelligent beings are the ones God made. His Word (Bible) said He made us for Him with predictions for the end times. AI takeover isn’t in there. Also, it implies (a) we won’t ever observe an act of evolution that produces anything like us and (b) any artificial intelligence will likewise require brilliant, intelligent designers to work and be maintained. So far, all these AI’s with a tiny fraction of human capabilities require brilliant designers in fine-tuned environments, like we did. We’ve also observed billions of human and non-human births with no new kinds of animals coming out of them. So, the Word of God is supported by billions of observations plus every AI ever designed while evolutionary or singularity-type views are not. That’s despite so many comments in these discussions referencing evolutionary or mechanical explanations as if they’ve been proven instead of disproven by observations. So, put your trust in Jesus Christ, receive the Spirit of God our Creator, and find out for yourself what’s special about us. Your life will be much more than the product of a biological, cellular process. God is powerful. You’ll see His work in a new light after you personally know Him.