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FlipperZero: Our Response to the Canadian Government
- ByQuyzzy 3y agoWhy are society’s little cupcake nannies so flustered about this innocent gadget?
- chatmasta 3y agoBecause they think it's easier to ban this device than to require auto manufacturers to produce secure locks. Also, people keep voting for them so they don't think they're doing anything wrong.
- ed_balls 3y agoAdding a clock to a key, so the code is only valid for a few seconds + keyless entry respond only active if the key was moved in the last 30 seconds, would solve most of the problems. That's like $5 per key?
- anonymousab 3y agoAny dollars more than none is too many for auto companies and for dealerships. Even subsidizing it would still require them to spend time on the problem and that's quite unacceptable. That's assuming that the technical problem, testing, rollout, etc. wouldn't run into any issues. That all said, not all thefts are the kind that the Flipper team are describing (/the kind that the government is falsely blaming on the Zero). Lots of them are a lot simpler than that, even before getting to the Kia/Hyundai mess. Actually making the mass car theft problem better would require a more in depth approach across several boundaries, and that's a lot more effort than just banning this tool.
- aeonik 3y agoA clock + challenge response is likely one of only a couple solutions to this problem, but the challenge is the "valid time" would need to be on the order of nanoseconds, not seconds to beat the relay attack mentioned in the article. This might be doable but the authentication path would need entirely separate and dedicated circuitry. Or maybe a cryptographic stream that is like a cumulative handshake (incremental streamed challenge/response?) that can offset some of the processing delay. Any solution would need to be faster than nanoseconds because that's how long it takes light to travel a meter or two.
- dzhiurgis 3y agoAFAIK Apple's UWB CarKeys solved this. Tesla until recently used BLE which is more susceptible (read: works at greater distance) to relaying.
- aeonik 3y agoI think you are right. Without knowing more detail, the claims of the protocol seem very cool. They are doing more than just Time of Flight calculations. Looks like they do channel impulse response analysis with really high data rates. Very interesting stuff, thanks for sharing.
- dzhiurgis 3y agoFor a quick fix, how about: 1. Competent police agency reverse engineer how relaying hardware works and how can such devices can be detected IRL. 2. Police sell relay device themselves and catch thieves red handed.
- MikusR 3y agoBecause it's easier that actually catching and punishing the thieves.
- educaysean 3y agoI doubt they're actually flustered. It seems like they didn't even care enough to learn about what it is. They just needed something to shove into the scapegoat-shaped hole, and Flipper Zero happened to fit.
- anonymousab 3y agoBecause the alternative would be to make some annoying demands of the auto industry, of various police services, and of CP Rail and the ports. That's a lot of political capital to spend (or burn) on a lot of different groups, and would likely anger a lot of bases of power and financial support, for some citizen benefits that won't really pay off in the short term. By contrast, banning a scary foreign hacker device with existing vague pop culture presence is a far more effective way of seeming like you're doing something with the average voter while not causing issues with any important groups and not having to spend much time or money. The efficacy for stopping car thefts is not really the goal.
- type_Ben_struct 3y agoIt’s the equivalent of banning balaclavas to prevent burglaries. Sadly I think it’ll still prove a popular move as most people will lack the technical aptitude to understand that the FlipperZero is not used for car thefts.
- sitzkrieg 3y agoagreed, this is so stupid. wait till they see what a ti devboard can do lol
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- chabons 3y agoWell, except we have video evidence of thieves wearing balaclavas during burglaries, not so much of them using FlipperZero's.
- thomaslord 3y agoI'd like to propose an alternative: it’s the equivalent of banning bananas to prevent burglaries.
- BigParm 3y agoThe only path to success here is to convince them that FlipperZero promotes racial diversity.
- zen928 3y agoI think they're on track at a metaphorical level to follow the same consideration of racial diversity shown to their indigenous people, i.e. mass burying in unmarked graves instead of attempting to address the disparity. I guess it's better that it's not literal this time.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- telegtron 3y ago"Scapegoat" comes to mind.
- threecheese 3y ago“Scapedolphin”? :)
- ipaddr 3y agoThe current Canadian government has the weakest ministers. I think it is designed this way and allows the prime minster to dominate discussions and push his agenda. It also keeps potential successors weak/clueless. But this is the result of another clueless minister. The removal of facebook news is another.
- 2Gkashmiri 3y agoI am from India and want to buy one, anyone has any idea ?
- SushiHippie 3y agoI somehow didn't expect such a well written article from FlipperZero. I'm used to companies that answer to politicians, legal changes/battles more "emotionally loaded", rather than objective with facts, examples, cool graphics and technical details! I normally can't concentrate enough to read such long articles posted here on HN, but I did read this one without noticing how long it is. And I can see how non technical people would understand this article too, while technically versed people probably won't get bored reading this, very well balanced! This article also cleared some things up for me, as sillly me somehow really thought that people used the Flipper Zeroes to steal cars. Kudos to the authors
- diimdeep 3y agoOne could have not imagined better and free publicity for a company than what this not so smart Canadian government is doing.