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I don't like this post and what it implies. If tomorrow you want to learn to cook, how would you feel if a master chef told you "No, don't. You'll never be as

I don't like this post and what it implies. If tomorrow you want to learn to cook, how would you feel if a master chef told you "No, don't. You'll never be as good as me. If you're hungry, come to my restaurant instead". I think there's nothing wrong with learning a new skill, whoever you are, whatever you do. Learning new skills is what makes us human.

jkahn 14y ago
This is a great example. My brother in law is a chef. I asked for his scone recipe, and he said to throw in some sugar, flour and milk (or something like that, I'm not a chef). Mix it until it looks right. That's expertise. I'm a lousy cook - but I can cook food if I follow instructions that have accurate measurements. That doesn't mean I shouldn't learn to cook.
- devb 14y ago
  You're not a lousy cook, you're just not used to the process. All it is is following instructions with precise measurements, and then doing it over and over again with different instruction sets until you start to recognize patterns and you find yourself having to look at the instructions less and less. That's 99% of cooking.
  - loso 14y ago
    That is not what being a professional cook is about though. My girlfriend is a pastry chef and it takes more than being able to follow a recipe. Part of being a professional means knowing why certain ingredients taste the way they do when mixed with other ingredients. It means knowing how the altitude and temperature of where you are cooking can affect the taste of an ingredient. And there are a lot more little details that go into it as well. For most people, they are just going to follow a recipe and you are right, that is all they need. But to be on a professional level and to be able to reproduce those flavors it takes a lot more than that. Check out the book "Professional Baking", it shows a lot of the complex nature that goes into being a pro.
derekerdmann 14y ago
Cooking may not be the best analogy. What if everyone started learning to build bridges instead? Sure, the general population might benefit from knowing how bridges work and what loads they can take, but when a bunch of inexperienced, improperly educated bridge-builders start trying to create new ones because it pays well, we end up with dangerous bridges. Jeff's article is trying to point out that while understanding code isn't a bad thing, coding isn't the most important part of writing software. Those who think it is end up writing code without purpose, something I consider as dangerous in the long term as shoddy bridges.
- icebraining 14y ago
  Shoddy bridges aren't bad, relying on them is. The fact that Bloomberg will write some code doesn't mean we'll have to use it, just like I have plenty of code in my HD that I don't throw into the world, because it's absolute crap. If we could all build bridges in the our own yard, I think we'd see some of new fantastic bridges which we could re-use. With coding, we can.
- telent 14y ago
  Building bridges may not be the best analogy. What if everyone started learning to dance the macarena instead? Seriously, cooking as an analogy highlights a difference between private recreational practice and public for-pay professional practice. Building bridges, unless you live in a place where everyone has a backyard with a river in it, not so much.
- jkahn 14y ago
  I don't think anyone is saying that everyone should write professional software. Just that it would be beneficial if they learned the equivalent of making a ramp for a wheelbarrow in the back yard.
MortenK 14y ago
But should it be mandatory for everybody to learn cooking on the same level as reading and writing? Is it such a basic requirement, that we're decreasing our children's chance of success, if we don't teach them cooking (edit: Again, on the same level as reading and writing)? Apart from at least a fundamental ability to use a stove, it is naturally not that crucial of an ability. The argument of the blog post is that it is the same with programming, i.e. It is not a necessity to succeed in life to know how to code. I don't think the point of the post is to discourage anybody from learning to code. Rather it is a counterpoint to the recently heavily promoted idea that programming is somehow a necessary life skill.
- mseebach 14y ago
  > we're decreasing our children's chance of success, if we don't teach them cooking? Yes. Knowing cooking is paramount to feeding yourself and your family cheap, healthy meals.
  - sdoering 14y ago
    I can only add to this. Because one of the most important skills, after checking my finances, was being able to cook. And knowing, what healthy food is and how to make it, so it stays healthy and(!) tasty. I might be able to learn a lot of math in school, reading/writing, research (in university), critical thinking (throughout life). But being able to care for my own food, to know, what not to buy (or what to buy) and so on, helped me stay sane and in good shape.
  - MortenK 14y ago
    Yes of course. But do you need to teach kids cooking from first grade until they start college, on the same level as math, reading and writing?
    - mseebach 14y ago
      I don't care about the schedule on which any of those things are taught, just that they are taught.
- 14y ago
adeelk 14y ago
If tomorrow you want to learn to cook, how would you feel if a master chef told you "No, don't. You'll never be as good as me. If you're hungry, come to my restaurant instead". I think people who want to learn to program are learning already. The right analogy would be teaching everyone cooking in elementary school as a required subject, together with reading, writing and mathematics.
- rytis 14y ago
  > The right analogy would be teaching everyone cooking in elementary school as a required subject, together with reading, writing and mathematics. Would that be a bad thing? Many-many-many moons, sorry - summers, ago they did that. Along with maths/etc pupils were taught practical stuff, like woodwork, cookery, etc. Not that the goal was to make them all carpenters or cooks, but just to give an idea what it is like and teach to look after themselves. So I think that coding is something along the woodwork lines. New generations should get at least an idea of what it's like, regardless whether they're going to use it professionally or not.

jkahn 14y ago

This is a great example. My brother in law is a chef. I asked for his scone recipe, and he said to throw in some sugar, flour and milk (or something like that, I'm not a chef). Mix it until it looks right. That's expertise. I'm a lousy cook - but I can cook food if I follow instructions that have accurate measurements. That doesn't mean I shouldn't learn to cook.

devb 14y ago
You're not a lousy cook, you're just not used to the process. All it is is following instructions with precise measurements, and then doing it over and over again with different instruction sets until you start to recognize patterns and you find yourself having to look at the instructions less and less. That's 99% of cooking.
- loso 14y ago
  That is not what being a professional cook is about though. My girlfriend is a pastry chef and it takes more than being able to follow a recipe. Part of being a professional means knowing why certain ingredients taste the way they do when mixed with other ingredients. It means knowing how the altitude and temperature of where you are cooking can affect the taste of an ingredient. And there are a lot more little details that go into it as well. For most people, they are just going to follow a recipe and you are right, that is all they need. But to be on a professional level and to be able to reproduce those flavors it takes a lot more than that. Check out the book "Professional Baking", it shows a lot of the complex nature that goes into being a pro.

derekerdmann 14y ago

Cooking may not be the best analogy. What if everyone started learning to build bridges instead? Sure, the general population might benefit from knowing how bridges work and what loads they can take, but when a bunch of inexperienced, improperly educated bridge-builders start trying to create new ones because it pays well, we end up with dangerous bridges. Jeff's article is trying to point out that while understanding code isn't a bad thing, coding isn't the most important part of writing software. Those who think it is end up writing code without purpose, something I consider as dangerous in the long term as shoddy bridges.

icebraining 14y ago
Shoddy bridges aren't bad, relying on them is. The fact that Bloomberg will write some code doesn't mean we'll have to use it, just like I have plenty of code in my HD that I don't throw into the world, because it's absolute crap. If we could all build bridges in the our own yard, I think we'd see some of new fantastic bridges which we could re-use. With coding, we can.
telent 14y ago
Building bridges may not be the best analogy. What if everyone started learning to dance the macarena instead? Seriously, cooking as an analogy highlights a difference between private recreational practice and public for-pay professional practice. Building bridges, unless you live in a place where everyone has a backyard with a river in it, not so much.
jkahn 14y ago
I don't think anyone is saying that everyone should write professional software. Just that it would be beneficial if they learned the equivalent of making a ramp for a wheelbarrow in the back yard.

MortenK 14y ago

But should it be mandatory for everybody to learn cooking on the same level as reading and writing? Is it such a basic requirement, that we're decreasing our children's chance of success, if we don't teach them cooking (edit: Again, on the same level as reading and writing)? Apart from at least a fundamental ability to use a stove, it is naturally not that crucial of an ability. The argument of the blog post is that it is the same with programming, i.e. It is not a necessity to succeed in life to know how to code. I don't think the point of the post is to discourage anybody from learning to code. Rather it is a counterpoint to the recently heavily promoted idea that programming is somehow a necessary life skill.

mseebach 14y ago
> we're decreasing our children's chance of success, if we don't teach them cooking? Yes. Knowing cooking is paramount to feeding yourself and your family cheap, healthy meals.
- sdoering 14y ago
  I can only add to this. Because one of the most important skills, after checking my finances, was being able to cook. And knowing, what healthy food is and how to make it, so it stays healthy and(!) tasty. I might be able to learn a lot of math in school, reading/writing, research (in university), critical thinking (throughout life). But being able to care for my own food, to know, what not to buy (or what to buy) and so on, helped me stay sane and in good shape.
- MortenK 14y ago
  Yes of course. But do you need to teach kids cooking from first grade until they start college, on the same level as math, reading and writing?
  - mseebach 14y ago
    I don't care about the schedule on which any of those things are taught, just that they are taught.
14y ago

adeelk 14y ago

If tomorrow you want to learn to cook, how would you feel if a master chef told you "No, don't. You'll never be as good as me. If you're hungry, come to my restaurant instead". I think people who want to learn to program are learning already. The right analogy would be teaching everyone cooking in elementary school as a required subject, together with reading, writing and mathematics.

rytis 14y ago
> The right analogy would be teaching everyone cooking in elementary school as a required subject, together with reading, writing and mathematics. Would that be a bad thing? Many-many-many moons, sorry - summers, ago they did that. Along with maths/etc pupils were taught practical stuff, like woodwork, cookery, etc. Not that the goal was to make them all carpenters or cooks, but just to give an idea what it is like and teach to look after themselves. So I think that coding is something along the woodwork lines. New generations should get at least an idea of what it's like, regardless whether they're going to use it professionally or not.