4 ms·

Sounds like Canon is really bad in supporting driver changes in subsequent OS releases. I recall diagnosing the same issue with a colleagues Mac over 10 years a

Sounds like Canon is really bad in supporting driver changes in subsequent OS releases. I recall diagnosing the same issue with a colleagues Mac over 10 years ago. She updated the OS and the printer she bought with the computer 3 OS'es ago stopped working. Turns out something with how Printers were handled changed and Canon refused to release updated drivers for a discontinued machine. I recall that some third party hobbyist had developed a method to make the printer work but it took hours to try and get it working until we just gave up....also her dog accidentally yanked on the printer cord and it went flying off the table. That was also motivation to stop trying. I am more inclined to blame Canon than Apple here.

EricE 3y ago
Can confirm - Canon is horrible at updating their drivers; one of the reasons I no longer own, use or recommend any of their printers. Which is a shame since I really liked their laser printers :/
prmoustache 3y ago
Regardless of Canon, there is no reason to change drivers between macOSX OS releases. Aren't all releases using cups?
Rinzler89 3y ago
Why? Windows has been the one updating itself making sure to not break backwards printer support, not the other way around. You can still use printers from the 90's on modern Windows, meanwhile MacOS seems to break support for recent printers between minor updates. It's not like they're a cash-strapped start-up, if Microsoft can afford to invest in maintaining backwards compatibility, so can Apple. Sounds like Apple is just lazy and doesn't care what it breaks treating their desktop OS like their mobile OS where app devs need to keep pace with them, and fans will die on the hill defending them.
- papruapap 3y ago
  tbf MS is not the "normal" in the aspect. They are pretty much the backwwrds-compatibility kings.
  - turquoisevar 3y ago
    And at a significant cost at that. Windows has become a hodgepodge of code bases from a variety of time periods and philosophies, some of which leans on some ancient stuff that can’t be touched. Hell, they had to skip Windows 9, just to prevent breaking 95/98 software from braking. The average SW engineer here in HN wouldn’t know how fast they’d get to a keyboard to complain if they were to find a codebase like that at their job. That’s not to say it’s necessarily bad, even if it can be cumbersome, it’s just to highlight the cost of maintaining that compatibility and a difference in philosophy.
  - asyx 3y ago
    But nobody is expecting 30 years of backwards compatibility. Just keeping old printer drivers working. It's not like printers are devices we need all too much anymore. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that users will have discontinued printers at home. Kinda similar to Rosetta 1 and 32 bit binaries on x86. I get their motivation but killing Rosetta 1 basically meant that all old games that came out in the PPC era couldn't be played anymore and killing of 32 bit binaries made the Apple logo in Steam useless. It's not like people expect that this works like how early win32 application still work on Windows. They could totally make the user jump through a bunch of hoops to get support for their old applications. But they didn't.
- nozzlegear 3y ago
  It seems like Apple just prefers that companies release software that they will actually maintain, instead of relying on Apple/Microsoft to bend over backwards to maintain backwards compatibility from now until the end of time.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    >It seems like Apple just prefers that companies release software that they will actually maintain Maybe companies prefer their way, instead of what Apple imposes on them. After all, not all companies are tech companies, who can afford large teams of expensive devs to keep updating their SW. For non-tech companies, the less dev work they have to invest in SW, the better, as that frees up resources for their main business activity. I for one if I'm the customer and the one spending the money I definitely want to be in charge, not be at the mercy of the manufacturer of product I spend money on to dictate how I should run my business, that I should invest more effort in keeping up with them. Move fast and break things at the pace of their vendor, is not what most users and companies expect from their products and services.
    - nebula8804 3y ago
      They shouldn't advertise Mac support then. Canon specifically put a Mac logo on their boxes and uses that in their advertisements.
      - nwellinghoff 3y ago
        These printer companies could also open source their drivers after a number of years. The amount of landfill printers due to driver support is kinda sad. Just tossed my old cannon that had a perfectly good scanner due to driver support and the “need” for ink for the scanner to work. Booo!
        paulmd 3y ago
        100%. Require that software be released at the end of the support lifecycle for all licensed customers to continue their use-case, and watch support lifecycles magically telescope outwards. It would require modification to copyright law in certain aspects (requiring “pass-through licensing” so to speak) and there’s utterly no will to tackle this in the US. But those sorts of issues are already problematic for, eg, music licensing for games/shows/etc. Some of these types of hyper-limited, time-gated, non-product-ownership-following licensing agreements need to just be outlawed as unconscionable when they’re gating hardware that ends up in landfills or cutting off the public’s access to cultural touchstones. Or just shorten copyright significantly in general.
- ubercow13 3y ago
  Windows definitely does break backwards-compatibility of printer drivers. My parents had to use a Windows XP VM to print on their Canon printer for a long time before giving in and buying a new printer.
boolemancer 3y ago
How on earth is it Canon's fault when Apple releases a breaking change?
- EricE 3y ago
  Well for starters Canon installers do strict version checks. And they often stop updating their drivers, especially for older printers. I got very good about editing the installer files to either add newer versions of macOS or to just remove the version checks. The drivers always worked after I did so. Thats just one of the continual issues with them and their software that caused me to finally ditch them. HP drivers may be bloated, but they work!
bitcharmer 3y ago
> Turns out something with how Printers were handled changed What about backwards compatibility?

EricE 3y ago

Can confirm - Canon is horrible at updating their drivers; one of the reasons I no longer own, use or recommend any of their printers. Which is a shame since I really liked their laser printers :/

prmoustache 3y ago

Regardless of Canon, there is no reason to change drivers between macOSX OS releases. Aren't all releases using cups?

Rinzler89 3y ago

Why? Windows has been the one updating itself making sure to not break backwards printer support, not the other way around. You can still use printers from the 90's on modern Windows, meanwhile MacOS seems to break support for recent printers between minor updates. It's not like they're a cash-strapped start-up, if Microsoft can afford to invest in maintaining backwards compatibility, so can Apple. Sounds like Apple is just lazy and doesn't care what it breaks treating their desktop OS like their mobile OS where app devs need to keep pace with them, and fans will die on the hill defending them.

papruapap 3y ago
tbf MS is not the "normal" in the aspect. They are pretty much the backwwrds-compatibility kings.
- turquoisevar 3y ago
  And at a significant cost at that. Windows has become a hodgepodge of code bases from a variety of time periods and philosophies, some of which leans on some ancient stuff that can’t be touched. Hell, they had to skip Windows 9, just to prevent breaking 95/98 software from braking. The average SW engineer here in HN wouldn’t know how fast they’d get to a keyboard to complain if they were to find a codebase like that at their job. That’s not to say it’s necessarily bad, even if it can be cumbersome, it’s just to highlight the cost of maintaining that compatibility and a difference in philosophy.
- asyx 3y ago
  But nobody is expecting 30 years of backwards compatibility. Just keeping old printer drivers working. It's not like printers are devices we need all too much anymore. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that users will have discontinued printers at home. Kinda similar to Rosetta 1 and 32 bit binaries on x86. I get their motivation but killing Rosetta 1 basically meant that all old games that came out in the PPC era couldn't be played anymore and killing of 32 bit binaries made the Apple logo in Steam useless. It's not like people expect that this works like how early win32 application still work on Windows. They could totally make the user jump through a bunch of hoops to get support for their old applications. But they didn't.
nozzlegear 3y ago
It seems like Apple just prefers that companies release software that they will actually maintain, instead of relying on Apple/Microsoft to bend over backwards to maintain backwards compatibility from now until the end of time.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  >It seems like Apple just prefers that companies release software that they will actually maintain Maybe companies prefer their way, instead of what Apple imposes on them. After all, not all companies are tech companies, who can afford large teams of expensive devs to keep updating their SW. For non-tech companies, the less dev work they have to invest in SW, the better, as that frees up resources for their main business activity. I for one if I'm the customer and the one spending the money I definitely want to be in charge, not be at the mercy of the manufacturer of product I spend money on to dictate how I should run my business, that I should invest more effort in keeping up with them. Move fast and break things at the pace of their vendor, is not what most users and companies expect from their products and services.
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    They shouldn't advertise Mac support then. Canon specifically put a Mac logo on their boxes and uses that in their advertisements.
    - nwellinghoff 3y ago
      These printer companies could also open source their drivers after a number of years. The amount of landfill printers due to driver support is kinda sad. Just tossed my old cannon that had a perfectly good scanner due to driver support and the “need” for ink for the scanner to work. Booo!
      - paulmd 3y ago
        100%. Require that software be released at the end of the support lifecycle for all licensed customers to continue their use-case, and watch support lifecycles magically telescope outwards. It would require modification to copyright law in certain aspects (requiring “pass-through licensing” so to speak) and there’s utterly no will to tackle this in the US. But those sorts of issues are already problematic for, eg, music licensing for games/shows/etc. Some of these types of hyper-limited, time-gated, non-product-ownership-following licensing agreements need to just be outlawed as unconscionable when they’re gating hardware that ends up in landfills or cutting off the public’s access to cultural touchstones. Or just shorten copyright significantly in general.
ubercow13 3y ago
Windows definitely does break backwards-compatibility of printer drivers. My parents had to use a Windows XP VM to print on their Canon printer for a long time before giving in and buying a new printer.

boolemancer 3y ago

How on earth is it Canon's fault when Apple releases a breaking change?

EricE 3y ago
Well for starters Canon installers do strict version checks. And they often stop updating their drivers, especially for older printers. I got very good about editing the installer files to either add newer versions of macOS or to just remove the version checks. The drivers always worked after I did so. Thats just one of the continual issues with them and their software that caused me to finally ditch them. HP drivers may be bloated, but they work!

bitcharmer 3y ago

> Turns out something with how Printers were handled changed What about backwards compatibility?