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Because as a group the "advocates" who are otherwise intelligent are so inhumanly terrible at communicating ideas that it frankly seems more like they are doing

Because as a group the "advocates" who are otherwise intelligent are so inhumanly terrible at communicating ideas that it frankly seems more like they are doing it intentionally to troll. Fifteen Minute cities "inspired by lockdown" is just flat out leading with the wrong conclusion and emphasis. You'd have to go with 'own nothing and be happy' to do worse. And then there is the concept of "privilege" which takes what should be a simple concept of invisible issues and manages to phrases it in a way that sets out to invalidate the experiences and insult everyone.... I'm not exactly sympathetic to the crowds but it is no wonder they are reactionary and paranoid when their "opposition" is so bad at communicating. I can say without hyperbole that they would obliviously describe a vaccine for all cancers in a way that implies they are going to kill everyone's children.

Nursie 3y ago
> Fifteen Minute cities "inspired by lockdown" Who said that? Who tried to sell that idea that way? Nobody who's in favour of it, and it predates lockdowns by several years, originating in 2016 - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-03/15-minute-cities-what-are-they-and-why-are-they-controversial https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-03/15-minute... > You'd have to go with 'own nothing and be happy' Which comes from a discussion piece or thought experiment about the way the world was going at the time (again 2016) with the sharing economy being all the buzz, that was never communicated to anyone as a utopia or something to aim for, let alone forming anybody's policy. It's an inconsequential essay that would have disappeared into obscurity if the forces of outrage hadn't discovered it and whipped up a storm. And again it was years before the pandemic. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ll_own_nothing_and_be_happy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ll_own_nothing_and_be_ha... This is not people on the 'pro' side communicating ideas poorly; the communications you're citing as damning were done by the same reactionaries railing against these issues. And this is precisely the problem - a nothingburger and the radical idea of having facilities closer to where you live have been spun into outrage fuel, which you seem to have at least partially swallowed.
- anon291 3y ago
  > And this is precisely the problem - a nothingburger and the radical idea of having facilities closer to where you live have been spun into outrage fuel, which you seem to have at least partially swallowed. Again for me, as a conservatively-minded person, I also naturally tend to be against anything that seems like central planning. Central planning is the main reason we're in this mess to begin with. Even modern 'urban' developments are so mind-bogglingly awful it's hard to understand what people think they're going to get (California forever comes to mind...). I'm totally behind the idea of convenient cities. Instead of committees to centrally plan it, let's talk about building normal sized roads (a government responsibility) and eliminating permitting and parking requirements so owners get to use their land. That's the way normal cities get built. So while I absolutely support the idea of 15 minute cities, I find my natural reaction to many of the proponents of the idea to be wariness. I mean, all too often, I've been burnt by agreeing with someone only to then have them pivot immediately into the evils of capitalism, colonialism, etc. There absolutely is a problem with 'activists' in these circles, and they've hindered a lot of progress.

Nursie 3y ago

> Fifteen Minute cities "inspired by lockdown" Who said that? Who tried to sell that idea that way? Nobody who's in favour of it, and it predates lockdowns by several years, originating in 2016 - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-03/15-minute-cities-what-are-they-and-why-are-they-controversial https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-03/15-minute... > You'd have to go with 'own nothing and be happy' Which comes from a discussion piece or thought experiment about the way the world was going at the time (again 2016) with the sharing economy being all the buzz, that was never communicated to anyone as a utopia or something to aim for, let alone forming anybody's policy. It's an inconsequential essay that would have disappeared into obscurity if the forces of outrage hadn't discovered it and whipped up a storm. And again it was years before the pandemic. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ll_own_nothing_and_be_happy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ll_own_nothing_and_be_ha... This is not people on the 'pro' side communicating ideas poorly; the communications you're citing as damning were done by the same reactionaries railing against these issues. And this is precisely the problem - a nothingburger and the radical idea of having facilities closer to where you live have been spun into outrage fuel, which you seem to have at least partially swallowed.

anon291 3y ago
> And this is precisely the problem - a nothingburger and the radical idea of having facilities closer to where you live have been spun into outrage fuel, which you seem to have at least partially swallowed. Again for me, as a conservatively-minded person, I also naturally tend to be against anything that seems like central planning. Central planning is the main reason we're in this mess to begin with. Even modern 'urban' developments are so mind-bogglingly awful it's hard to understand what people think they're going to get (California forever comes to mind...). I'm totally behind the idea of convenient cities. Instead of committees to centrally plan it, let's talk about building normal sized roads (a government responsibility) and eliminating permitting and parking requirements so owners get to use their land. That's the way normal cities get built. So while I absolutely support the idea of 15 minute cities, I find my natural reaction to many of the proponents of the idea to be wariness. I mean, all too often, I've been burnt by agreeing with someone only to then have them pivot immediately into the evils of capitalism, colonialism, etc. There absolutely is a problem with 'activists' in these circles, and they've hindered a lot of progress.