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I built my app in Flutter without thinking about a11y at all, and had a blind user complain about a feature I updated. She had been using the app for about 6 mo

I built my app in Flutter without thinking about a11y at all, and had a blind user complain about a feature I updated. She had been using the app for about 6 months and she said it’s one of the most accessible apps she’s used. Flutter pretty much takes care of it all for you and the highly custom feature I built didn’t need much tweaking at all to make it work for her again.

freedomben 3y ago
I've heard this previously as well. Pretty compelling argument for using Flutter. If only I didn't dislike Dart so much...
- fngjdflmdflg 3y ago
  What issues have you had with dart last you tried it? What was the last version you tried? Dart has improved greatly in the last few years. It's one of the better OOP GCed languages these days in my opinion.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    My issues with Dart are pretty shallow honestly, mainly coming down to look and feel[1] and personal preference. I have no remaining technical qualms with Dart, just that I don't like it's flavor of ice cream (metaphorically speaking of course). It reminds me a lot of Java and feels like it was created to be more like what Javascript "should" have been had it been designed to be a scripting version of Java from the start. Of course this makes a ton of sense given it was designed at Google from a lot of Java devs. [1]: In the past I did have some criticisms around performance and non-native widgets, but those have been worked out
    - fngjdflmdflg 3y ago
      Interesting view. What makes it feel like java in your opinion? I think I see your point about dart being what JS should have been but I would add that it is also like what Java should have been. And really the only reason to compare it to Java is because it is the language that spawned most other comparable languages (C#, Swift, Dart, Kotlin, JS (kind of)). But syntactically Dart is nothing like java: - no `new` - no single class files only restriction - named parameters - no java.util.arraylist nonsense. semantically it is also very different (unlike eg. Kotlin) - first class support for passing functions as parameters (this is the worst issue with Java by far and can't be understated) - sound type system (String cannot be null) - async/await - no bytecode lots of other QOL features as well. If you're really thinking of trying out Flutter don't let Dart stop you from doing so. You may even find you like it!
      - neonsunset 3y ago
        With all those you could just use C# with much better outcome…
        fngjdflmdflg 3y ago
        I'm not too familiar with C# but I know it does not have a sound type system and it appears to require the "new" keyword for instantiating new objects. You need to import System.Collections for dynamiaclly sized arrays. Also appears to not have python-like print() (requires Console.WriteLine()). It also doesn't have flutter obviously. But in any case my point was more that Dart isn't really like Java. Why do you think C# will give you a better outcome?
        neonsunset 3y ago
        We’re reaching the levels of hello world optimization even the staunchest proponents of top-level statements (write Program.cs python script style) considered impossible.
        fngjdflmdflg 3y ago
        What about sound types? And I think having dynamically sized arrays in the language rather than standard library is an improvement in general because it removes extra cognitive load. Same for "print()." It just makes the language easier to write. The same way we never really need to pass functions as arguments because we can always pass an object that is guaranteed to have that function defined for it via interfaces. This is what is generally done in Java and it is awful.
        neonsunset 3y ago
        What? None of this makes any sense. C# is not Java. It has different syntax and feature set. The print thing is just hilarious however. I have probably heard it only ever from someone who started programming a couple of months ago.

freedomben 3y ago

I've heard this previously as well. Pretty compelling argument for using Flutter. If only I didn't dislike Dart so much...

fngjdflmdflg 3y ago
What issues have you had with dart last you tried it? What was the last version you tried? Dart has improved greatly in the last few years. It's one of the better OOP GCed languages these days in my opinion.
- freedomben 3y ago
  My issues with Dart are pretty shallow honestly, mainly coming down to look and feel[1] and personal preference. I have no remaining technical qualms with Dart, just that I don't like it's flavor of ice cream (metaphorically speaking of course). It reminds me a lot of Java and feels like it was created to be more like what Javascript "should" have been had it been designed to be a scripting version of Java from the start. Of course this makes a ton of sense given it was designed at Google from a lot of Java devs. [1]: In the past I did have some criticisms around performance and non-native widgets, but those have been worked out
  - fngjdflmdflg 3y ago
    Interesting view. What makes it feel like java in your opinion? I think I see your point about dart being what JS should have been but I would add that it is also like what Java should have been. And really the only reason to compare it to Java is because it is the language that spawned most other comparable languages (C#, Swift, Dart, Kotlin, JS (kind of)). But syntactically Dart is nothing like java: - no `new` - no single class files only restriction - named parameters - no java.util.arraylist nonsense. semantically it is also very different (unlike eg. Kotlin) - first class support for passing functions as parameters (this is the worst issue with Java by far and can't be understated) - sound type system (String cannot be null) - async/await - no bytecode lots of other QOL features as well. If you're really thinking of trying out Flutter don't let Dart stop you from doing so. You may even find you like it!
    - neonsunset 3y ago
      With all those you could just use C# with much better outcome…
      - fngjdflmdflg 3y ago
        I'm not too familiar with C# but I know it does not have a sound type system and it appears to require the "new" keyword for instantiating new objects. You need to import System.Collections for dynamiaclly sized arrays. Also appears to not have python-like print() (requires Console.WriteLine()). It also doesn't have flutter obviously. But in any case my point was more that Dart isn't really like Java. Why do you think C# will give you a better outcome?
        neonsunset 3y ago
        We’re reaching the levels of hello world optimization even the staunchest proponents of top-level statements (write Program.cs python script style) considered impossible.
        fngjdflmdflg 3y ago
        What about sound types? And I think having dynamically sized arrays in the language rather than standard library is an improvement in general because it removes extra cognitive load. Same for "print()." It just makes the language easier to write. The same way we never really need to pass functions as arguments because we can always pass an object that is guaranteed to have that function defined for it via interfaces. This is what is generally done in Java and it is awful.
        neonsunset 3y ago
        What? None of this makes any sense. C# is not Java. It has different syntax and feature set. The print thing is just hilarious however. I have probably heard it only ever from someone who started programming a couple of months ago.