6 ms·

For the last 12 years of his life, my father was in an electric wheelchair as a result of a stroke. Prior to that, I was vaguely aware of ADA compliance - basic

For the last 12 years of his life, my father was in an electric wheelchair as a result of a stroke. Prior to that, I was vaguely aware of ADA compliance - basically because there were posted signs everywhere about parking spaces and restroom stalls. It was only after seeing the ease with which he could navigate the world in spite of his chair that I appreciated how important that law was, because I also saw so many things that he wasn't able to do even though there was a law. Our entire world is built around and for people who see, hear, speak, walk, climb, and crawl. As developers, I would say we're second only (maybe) to government in the ability to make the world accessible. I'm as guilty as anybody at this. Please make the effort to make your work as accessible as possible to everyone.

matsemann 3y ago
Tangentially related, but it's a bit interesting to see how many men get "radicalized" after being on paternity leave and pushing a stroller around. I'm volunteering on a board for an organization that (among other things) works for more accessible streets (more from an angle of less car dependence though), and we get lots of new members with this revelation. Suddenly they hate getting from point A to B; "It's just a short distance, why is everything making it so hard? Why are there curbs everywhere? Why isn't it wide enough for my stroller to pass? Why are there no big toilets where I can bring the kid with me? Why do I have to go a long way extra for an elevator?".
- stn8188 3y ago
  Oh man I feel this... My big thing is observing and pointing out how few men's restrooms have diaper changing tables. Some places are awesome with it, or with private family restrooms for this purpose. For the other places... Let's just say that I'm quite used to changing diapers on the seat of the van.
  - sircastor 3y ago
    I 100% believe you, but I don't recall ever having this particular problem as a father (my kid was last in a diaper 2 years ago). The worst situation I recall coming across was the changing table mounted to the wall in the entrance space - which was frankly viewable from the outside of the restroom. I understand why they did it. This was at the Minnesota fairgrounds and there was literally no room in that bathroom any other place. I'm glad I never came across a men's room that wasn't accommodating. If you're not there yet, the next terror is desperately searching for a bathroom for your kid. It's especially hard in city centers where every place has put code locks on their restrooms "for customers only"... It's fine, I'll buy something, but my kid needs a bathroom right now!
    - freedomben 3y ago
      Yeah, we actually ran into opposite problem a lot, namely that the changing tables were only in the mens restroom. In one organization who I won't name, they were actually very proud of that. I also learned very quickly that this is not something you're allowed to complain about in our current society.
- godelski 3y ago
  My partner had to use a wheelchair for awhile and it can still be useful (difficulties walking), and boy has it caused a strong desire to just keep a spare bag of concrete and a bucket in my trunk. Or even just metal shims. I've definitely got the same experience of "why is everything so __needlessly__ difficult?" When many could be solved or significantly eased with just a few dollars worth of materials. > Why do I have to go a long way extra for an elevator? - Why did I just walk past 3 flights of stairs on my way to the elevator? - Why did the handicap subway car drop me off at the far end of the station? - Why did 3 people rush in front to get to the extra wide gate when there are 5 empty normal gates? - Why does the flat moving walkway have a divider that's meant to prevent bikes but also prevents a fucking wheelchair or walker! The last one really triggers me... I mean I get why they do it but it also feels like a spit in the face (I'm glad they still help old people and those with limited mobility though). But come on....
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    A friend of mine from college has a form of dwarfism that gives him extremely limited walking ability. I have spent many hours pushing his wheelchair around college and now around towns. Newfound dislike of cobblestone streets lol. During one busy winter, he had to drive his mobility scooter to class in the early morning after a huge storm. The "ramp" to get from the sidewalk to the street to go where he needed to go was covered in snow and he couldn't push through. He asked the groundskeeper/janitor/maintenance guy who was shoveling nearby if he could clear it. "Not my job" I often wonder if Americans are especially selfish. There is this disgusting undercurrent of greed and "fuck you got mine" in our culture, and it harms everything we interact with. Think about the parking lot of your nearest grocery store, and how many carts have just been left in parking spots by people who think their shit doesn't stink. I wonder how many of those people run local businesses or government departments.
    - godelski 3y ago
      > Newfound dislike of cobblestone streets God... yes > I often wonder if Americans are especially selfish. I can only speak to America and visiting another popular Asian country. I don't think it is uniquely American. It seems more related to people struggling and thus how much they're in their own world. I think about this a lot because it makes it a solvable thing. But maybe I'm just hopeful. I mean either way we live in a biased internal world, and if we're going to choose, I'll be optimistic in my pessimism (that things can be solve or significantly improved). At least that framework keeps me moving forward. But also, these experiences make me think about how important it is to offer help. Even in small cases or just see if you can lighten someone's load. There's many situations where it's little to no cost to you (in time, effort, and/or money) but mean a lot to others. Even offering often can turn someone's bad day into a good one (unfortunately sometimes after you leave). So I try to remember the little things. Because it is the little things that get in the way and make our lives difficult, so it makes sense that little things can also improve them. You don't have to be wealthy or a superstar to change the world, you just have to be a friendly neighbor.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
godelski 3y ago
I had a similar experience but with my partner. Wrote a longer rant[0]. It's quite hard to notice a lot of these things before you actually have to deal with them. I knew ramps were needed and automatic doors, but the shock was more about little things. But, a big thing I've noticed is that like 90% of things that would help us would make lives easier for normal people too. Which this was a big thing that opened my mind of how to address a lot of accessibility, is just think more deeply. If it affects a wheelchair it also affects a stroller, your wheeled baggage, things being dropped between cracks/small gaps, being able to clean between gaps (and subsequently the mold, water damage, grime, etc that makes things more costly in the long run!), your robot delivery drone, whatever. Ironically making the world more accessible for wheel-chaired people makes the world easier to robotize, which in turn can then also help disabled people. But the lesson is to think deep, because there are so many parallels. So if you hit upon one, you benefit the others. So you don't need to sit around thinking of every possible disability to make things accessible, which is a big blessing in itself. But if you think with care you will make the world much more accessible. No one expects to be perfectly accessible to everyone and disabled people know the world isn't going to bend to them, but that also doesn't mean we shouldn't try and care for our friends and family (other humans). But since it can help, just remember that a lot of things that help them will also help you. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39748213 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39748213
- acdha 3y ago
  > But, a big thing I've noticed is that like 90% of things that would help us would make lives easier for normal people too. This was a really common observation among the parents in our circles. You really notice things like missing curb cuts or bumpy sidewalks when pushing a stroller, so many things where only needing one hand is really helpful when holding a baby, having restroom stalls big enough to accommodate a wheelchair also means a stroller or second kid can fit, etc. A lot of people went from sort of vaguely thinking this is important to vocally backing accessibility at public meetings. One important example: public bathrooms. Hatred of homeless people has driven a lot of American cities not to have them, which means people with certain conditions stay in or avoid certain areas. It also sucks for parents and I’ve noticed at planning meetings that one of those things which should not happen but does is that, say, an older low income person saying they’d use a park more if it had a background does not get the same response as, say, the affluent mom saying the same thing. It’d be nice if that didn’t require haggling but if it takes a coalition to get fixed at least it still happens. I noticed something similar with our local bike path expansion - motorized wheelchair users are looking forward to a smooth, safe, fast path, too.
dylan604 3y ago
> Our entire world is built around and for people who see, hear, speak, walk, climb, and crawl. As a parent, I would disagree with the world is built for those that crawl. New parents are told/suggested to crawl around their house just to get a closer eye-level exprience of what their toddler will have.
- sircastor 3y ago
  That's a fair point - I was thinking of how many times I've been able to crawl under my desk to get a thing I dropped, or plugged in a cable. But I hadn't thought of it in terms of being limited to crawling.
npteljes 3y ago
Really similar to backups in this regard. People don't appreciate it, until they need it. Then it goes from "I don't care, leave me alone, inconvenience" to "life-saving essential thing, why doesn't everyone care about this all the time".
squigz 3y ago
> As developers, I would say we're second only (maybe) to government in the ability to make the world accessible This isn't something I've really considered, but it's both very true and very important. Thank you

matsemann 3y ago

Tangentially related, but it's a bit interesting to see how many men get "radicalized" after being on paternity leave and pushing a stroller around. I'm volunteering on a board for an organization that (among other things) works for more accessible streets (more from an angle of less car dependence though), and we get lots of new members with this revelation. Suddenly they hate getting from point A to B; "It's just a short distance, why is everything making it so hard? Why are there curbs everywhere? Why isn't it wide enough for my stroller to pass? Why are there no big toilets where I can bring the kid with me? Why do I have to go a long way extra for an elevator?".

stn8188 3y ago
Oh man I feel this... My big thing is observing and pointing out how few men's restrooms have diaper changing tables. Some places are awesome with it, or with private family restrooms for this purpose. For the other places... Let's just say that I'm quite used to changing diapers on the seat of the van.
- sircastor 3y ago
  I 100% believe you, but I don't recall ever having this particular problem as a father (my kid was last in a diaper 2 years ago). The worst situation I recall coming across was the changing table mounted to the wall in the entrance space - which was frankly viewable from the outside of the restroom. I understand why they did it. This was at the Minnesota fairgrounds and there was literally no room in that bathroom any other place. I'm glad I never came across a men's room that wasn't accommodating. If you're not there yet, the next terror is desperately searching for a bathroom for your kid. It's especially hard in city centers where every place has put code locks on their restrooms "for customers only"... It's fine, I'll buy something, but my kid needs a bathroom right now!
  - freedomben 3y ago
    Yeah, we actually ran into opposite problem a lot, namely that the changing tables were only in the mens restroom. In one organization who I won't name, they were actually very proud of that. I also learned very quickly that this is not something you're allowed to complain about in our current society.
godelski 3y ago
My partner had to use a wheelchair for awhile and it can still be useful (difficulties walking), and boy has it caused a strong desire to just keep a spare bag of concrete and a bucket in my trunk. Or even just metal shims. I've definitely got the same experience of "why is everything so __needlessly__ difficult?" When many could be solved or significantly eased with just a few dollars worth of materials. > Why do I have to go a long way extra for an elevator? - Why did I just walk past 3 flights of stairs on my way to the elevator? - Why did the handicap subway car drop me off at the far end of the station? - Why did 3 people rush in front to get to the extra wide gate when there are 5 empty normal gates? - Why does the flat moving walkway have a divider that's meant to prevent bikes but also prevents a fucking wheelchair or walker! The last one really triggers me... I mean I get why they do it but it also feels like a spit in the face (I'm glad they still help old people and those with limited mobility though). But come on....
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  A friend of mine from college has a form of dwarfism that gives him extremely limited walking ability. I have spent many hours pushing his wheelchair around college and now around towns. Newfound dislike of cobblestone streets lol. During one busy winter, he had to drive his mobility scooter to class in the early morning after a huge storm. The "ramp" to get from the sidewalk to the street to go where he needed to go was covered in snow and he couldn't push through. He asked the groundskeeper/janitor/maintenance guy who was shoveling nearby if he could clear it. "Not my job" I often wonder if Americans are especially selfish. There is this disgusting undercurrent of greed and "fuck you got mine" in our culture, and it harms everything we interact with. Think about the parking lot of your nearest grocery store, and how many carts have just been left in parking spots by people who think their shit doesn't stink. I wonder how many of those people run local businesses or government departments.
  - godelski 3y ago
    > Newfound dislike of cobblestone streets God... yes > I often wonder if Americans are especially selfish. I can only speak to America and visiting another popular Asian country. I don't think it is uniquely American. It seems more related to people struggling and thus how much they're in their own world. I think about this a lot because it makes it a solvable thing. But maybe I'm just hopeful. I mean either way we live in a biased internal world, and if we're going to choose, I'll be optimistic in my pessimism (that things can be solve or significantly improved). At least that framework keeps me moving forward. But also, these experiences make me think about how important it is to offer help. Even in small cases or just see if you can lighten someone's load. There's many situations where it's little to no cost to you (in time, effort, and/or money) but mean a lot to others. Even offering often can turn someone's bad day into a good one (unfortunately sometimes after you leave). So I try to remember the little things. Because it is the little things that get in the way and make our lives difficult, so it makes sense that little things can also improve them. You don't have to be wealthy or a superstar to change the world, you just have to be a friendly neighbor.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

godelski 3y ago

I had a similar experience but with my partner. Wrote a longer rant[0]. It's quite hard to notice a lot of these things before you actually have to deal with them. I knew ramps were needed and automatic doors, but the shock was more about little things. But, a big thing I've noticed is that like 90% of things that would help us would make lives easier for normal people too. Which this was a big thing that opened my mind of how to address a lot of accessibility, is just think more deeply. If it affects a wheelchair it also affects a stroller, your wheeled baggage, things being dropped between cracks/small gaps, being able to clean between gaps (and subsequently the mold, water damage, grime, etc that makes things more costly in the long run!), your robot delivery drone, whatever. Ironically making the world more accessible for wheel-chaired people makes the world easier to robotize, which in turn can then also help disabled people. But the lesson is to think deep, because there are so many parallels. So if you hit upon one, you benefit the others. So you don't need to sit around thinking of every possible disability to make things accessible, which is a big blessing in itself. But if you think with care you will make the world much more accessible. No one expects to be perfectly accessible to everyone and disabled people know the world isn't going to bend to them, but that also doesn't mean we shouldn't try and care for our friends and family (other humans). But since it can help, just remember that a lot of things that help them will also help you. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39748213 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39748213

acdha 3y ago
> But, a big thing I've noticed is that like 90% of things that would help us would make lives easier for normal people too. This was a really common observation among the parents in our circles. You really notice things like missing curb cuts or bumpy sidewalks when pushing a stroller, so many things where only needing one hand is really helpful when holding a baby, having restroom stalls big enough to accommodate a wheelchair also means a stroller or second kid can fit, etc. A lot of people went from sort of vaguely thinking this is important to vocally backing accessibility at public meetings. One important example: public bathrooms. Hatred of homeless people has driven a lot of American cities not to have them, which means people with certain conditions stay in or avoid certain areas. It also sucks for parents and I’ve noticed at planning meetings that one of those things which should not happen but does is that, say, an older low income person saying they’d use a park more if it had a background does not get the same response as, say, the affluent mom saying the same thing. It’d be nice if that didn’t require haggling but if it takes a coalition to get fixed at least it still happens. I noticed something similar with our local bike path expansion - motorized wheelchair users are looking forward to a smooth, safe, fast path, too.

dylan604 3y ago

> Our entire world is built around and for people who see, hear, speak, walk, climb, and crawl. As a parent, I would disagree with the world is built for those that crawl. New parents are told/suggested to crawl around their house just to get a closer eye-level exprience of what their toddler will have.

sircastor 3y ago
That's a fair point - I was thinking of how many times I've been able to crawl under my desk to get a thing I dropped, or plugged in a cable. But I hadn't thought of it in terms of being limited to crawling.

npteljes 3y ago

Really similar to backups in this regard. People don't appreciate it, until they need it. Then it goes from "I don't care, leave me alone, inconvenience" to "life-saving essential thing, why doesn't everyone care about this all the time".

squigz 3y ago

> As developers, I would say we're second only (maybe) to government in the ability to make the world accessible This isn't something I've really considered, but it's both very true and very important. Thank you