4 ms·

On the flip side, I thrived during lockdown. Productivity & happiness went way up, I finally felt like I was getting enough "alone time," I still interacted fre

On the flip side, I thrived during lockdown. Productivity & happiness went way up, I finally felt like I was getting enough "alone time," I still interacted frequently over Teams throughout the day and felt no craving for more "people time." It's almost like people are different and there's no one size fits all approach, and we should stop being stupid and let the people who want to work remote do so, while providing meeting space for people who want to be in person. It feels like the world is dictated by Type-A, "I can only be productive & wrap my head around things if I'm face to face" people, when they're only 1 type of worker.

pnutjam 3y ago
Also, I thrived and had to deal with way less low level racism. I've heard also less sexism from women who work remote. Being a voice is a better experience for me and levels the playing field.
- helboi4 3y ago
  I'm a mixed race (black), nonbinary butch lesbian. I definitely have had a workplace where people made cruel gay and trans jokes constantly and my boss was 100% sexist. That's not exactly my ideal workplace either and I did end up working from home as much as I could for that one. But I find it really problematic that you think it's better for minorities to just isolate themselves to protect themselves from these inevitable facts of life. Maybe if it was just racism that I was facing, and I knew through work from home I could spend more time around my black community, I would feel like you do. But as a queer person, I have little to no black community, I do not have close family connections. I do not have some strong childhood friendship group because they bullied me for being queer. My university experience was better but fucking destroyed by covid. Most people I knew left the country in 2020 and never came back. I find finding people who understand me near impossible, and so to keep my sanity, I need to just see human beings, just by default, passively at least. Often, as a queer person, I feel my sense of isolation is only fully allieved by romantic relationships. When my gf broke up with me, I lost my will to live for a few weeks. So I went to the office every single day. I got out of my space, I spoke to some of the nice people there. I went to the pub after work and made some connections with colleagues around my age that helped me. If I was still at my previous more remote job, I think I would've stayed in bed, smoked weed until I was bordering on psychosis and lost my job. I don't know what you want from me. Please drop your image that the only people that benefit from the office are tyrannical old white male middle managers.
  - pnutjam 3y ago
    I'm a middle aged Hispanic guy who lives in a very conservative state and works in tech. I have established my own community of friends and family. Work doesn't provide anything for me except a paycheck. I'm friendly at work and I keep in touch and consider some people I've worked with friends, but the majority of people I work with are just work acquaintances. I remember being lonelier in my 20's, but I never really socialized at work. I socialized outside work with my family, or found places I enjoyed being with people I enjoyed being around. "The office" is an antiquated system that's unnecessary. America definitely needs more public spaces, but building your relationships around work is a recipe for disaster. It takes time to build a community, but it's worth it. I don't want to be around people who are forced to be around me, pretend the don't look down on me, sabotage me behind my back. Remote work makes those people forget to discriminate in my experience, I can stand on my merits without that guy who does my job (but sucks) joking about how they could replace me with a sombrero. (actual IRL interaction.) EDIT: spelling
    - helboi4 3y ago
      I feel sorry for you that you live in the US. I don't. I've heard from colleagues from my (lovely) office that when they go to the US office the work culture feels so toxic. Sounds bad, mate. I think you proved my point that WFH benefits older people and people with strong family units. I don't have any of this tying me down or supporting me, and if I lived in a hostile conservative area I would move because why would I want to be miserable about my surroundings. I'm not sure what part of 'I don't have strong family or friendship units' that you don't understand. If you hadn't had a strong family behind you on your 20s, maybe you'd understand me too. I don't feel like people at work look down on me, again, when I was in a job like that, I left. It's as simple as that. I want a workplace where I actually like the people and people are sociable. It's a priority. This weekend once again I had a terrible experience. I was distraught all weekend by my own. Today, I got properly washed and dressed, got out of my house and into the office, had some nice conversations, talked it through with a colleague who i'm actually close to during a smoke break, she gave me a hug, I ate the healthy subsidised food, bought some sleep supplements during lunch break, and it all helped me. Otherwise, I'd still be rolling around crying in my flat. What do you not get that just having SOMEWHERE to go during regular days is important to some of us. I honestly don't understand people that function without obligations like this.
helboi4 3y ago
I am the exact opposite of a Type-A person. I know you think everyone who wants a return to the office is some tyrannical middle manager type, but I just get depressed if I don't have a place to go with familiar people every day. I don't give a shit about work and I don't care to work anywhere where managers think we need to be surveilled. I just don't want to be suicidal because I haven't spoken to a human in 5 days, and I only realise I haven't gone outside at about 4pm, at which point its often dark here in the UK. And no, all office being remote with the option for people to come in doesn't work for me. That's what my last job is. You know whats worse than working from home? Going into the office to find nobody is there, anyone who is there you haven't seen for 6 months and have no rapport with, and you feel like you're in some sterile empty hall. I'm saying only a hybrid job where I knew people would not give up on going to the office fit for me. Even I will give up on going to the office if noone really goes and I feel no imperative to. It's just bad for me.
- quickslowdown 3y ago
  I do think managers trying to force people back to the office are tyrants. I maybe was a bit callous/harsh with what I said about RTO people. But you're making the point I was trying to communicate. You know you prefer an office you can go to, and you don't like going days without seeing/talking to another human. That suicidal feeling you mentioned when you go too long without human contact? There is an inverse to that, where people like me feel burnt out, depressed, and "done" after too much (or sometimes even just a little) people time. The people who want to return to an office should be allowed to, and should have a place to go. There are enough people who prefer working in an office that you'll get your human contact, and the people who want to be at home without all the people interaction should be given that option as well. But the frustration you feel at the way I framed RTO people is the same frustration I feel when this sensible compromise is proposed, but isn't good enough for the RTO types. You prefer being around people throughout the week, I do not. There's room for both to work, but dictating I have to come to an office because you like seeing people is where the frustration comes from.
  - helboi4 3y ago
    Bro even people like me don't turn up to the office if there aren't mandatory days cos nobody can be arsed to go to an office where there's noone there and they haven't built a relationship with their colleagues anyway. It doesn't fulfil the needs I have if it's not a social activity. I think there should be remote jobs and hybrid jobs and you should just choose to work somewhere remote and I should choose somewhere hybrid.

pnutjam 3y ago

Also, I thrived and had to deal with way less low level racism. I've heard also less sexism from women who work remote. Being a voice is a better experience for me and levels the playing field.

helboi4 3y ago
I'm a mixed race (black), nonbinary butch lesbian. I definitely have had a workplace where people made cruel gay and trans jokes constantly and my boss was 100% sexist. That's not exactly my ideal workplace either and I did end up working from home as much as I could for that one. But I find it really problematic that you think it's better for minorities to just isolate themselves to protect themselves from these inevitable facts of life. Maybe if it was just racism that I was facing, and I knew through work from home I could spend more time around my black community, I would feel like you do. But as a queer person, I have little to no black community, I do not have close family connections. I do not have some strong childhood friendship group because they bullied me for being queer. My university experience was better but fucking destroyed by covid. Most people I knew left the country in 2020 and never came back. I find finding people who understand me near impossible, and so to keep my sanity, I need to just see human beings, just by default, passively at least. Often, as a queer person, I feel my sense of isolation is only fully allieved by romantic relationships. When my gf broke up with me, I lost my will to live for a few weeks. So I went to the office every single day. I got out of my space, I spoke to some of the nice people there. I went to the pub after work and made some connections with colleagues around my age that helped me. If I was still at my previous more remote job, I think I would've stayed in bed, smoked weed until I was bordering on psychosis and lost my job. I don't know what you want from me. Please drop your image that the only people that benefit from the office are tyrannical old white male middle managers.
- pnutjam 3y ago
  I'm a middle aged Hispanic guy who lives in a very conservative state and works in tech. I have established my own community of friends and family. Work doesn't provide anything for me except a paycheck. I'm friendly at work and I keep in touch and consider some people I've worked with friends, but the majority of people I work with are just work acquaintances. I remember being lonelier in my 20's, but I never really socialized at work. I socialized outside work with my family, or found places I enjoyed being with people I enjoyed being around. "The office" is an antiquated system that's unnecessary. America definitely needs more public spaces, but building your relationships around work is a recipe for disaster. It takes time to build a community, but it's worth it. I don't want to be around people who are forced to be around me, pretend the don't look down on me, sabotage me behind my back. Remote work makes those people forget to discriminate in my experience, I can stand on my merits without that guy who does my job (but sucks) joking about how they could replace me with a sombrero. (actual IRL interaction.) EDIT: spelling
  - helboi4 3y ago
    I feel sorry for you that you live in the US. I don't. I've heard from colleagues from my (lovely) office that when they go to the US office the work culture feels so toxic. Sounds bad, mate. I think you proved my point that WFH benefits older people and people with strong family units. I don't have any of this tying me down or supporting me, and if I lived in a hostile conservative area I would move because why would I want to be miserable about my surroundings. I'm not sure what part of 'I don't have strong family or friendship units' that you don't understand. If you hadn't had a strong family behind you on your 20s, maybe you'd understand me too. I don't feel like people at work look down on me, again, when I was in a job like that, I left. It's as simple as that. I want a workplace where I actually like the people and people are sociable. It's a priority. This weekend once again I had a terrible experience. I was distraught all weekend by my own. Today, I got properly washed and dressed, got out of my house and into the office, had some nice conversations, talked it through with a colleague who i'm actually close to during a smoke break, she gave me a hug, I ate the healthy subsidised food, bought some sleep supplements during lunch break, and it all helped me. Otherwise, I'd still be rolling around crying in my flat. What do you not get that just having SOMEWHERE to go during regular days is important to some of us. I honestly don't understand people that function without obligations like this.

helboi4 3y ago

I am the exact opposite of a Type-A person. I know you think everyone who wants a return to the office is some tyrannical middle manager type, but I just get depressed if I don't have a place to go with familiar people every day. I don't give a shit about work and I don't care to work anywhere where managers think we need to be surveilled. I just don't want to be suicidal because I haven't spoken to a human in 5 days, and I only realise I haven't gone outside at about 4pm, at which point its often dark here in the UK. And no, all office being remote with the option for people to come in doesn't work for me. That's what my last job is. You know whats worse than working from home? Going into the office to find nobody is there, anyone who is there you haven't seen for 6 months and have no rapport with, and you feel like you're in some sterile empty hall. I'm saying only a hybrid job where I knew people would not give up on going to the office fit for me. Even I will give up on going to the office if noone really goes and I feel no imperative to. It's just bad for me.

quickslowdown 3y ago
I do think managers trying to force people back to the office are tyrants. I maybe was a bit callous/harsh with what I said about RTO people. But you're making the point I was trying to communicate. You know you prefer an office you can go to, and you don't like going days without seeing/talking to another human. That suicidal feeling you mentioned when you go too long without human contact? There is an inverse to that, where people like me feel burnt out, depressed, and "done" after too much (or sometimes even just a little) people time. The people who want to return to an office should be allowed to, and should have a place to go. There are enough people who prefer working in an office that you'll get your human contact, and the people who want to be at home without all the people interaction should be given that option as well. But the frustration you feel at the way I framed RTO people is the same frustration I feel when this sensible compromise is proposed, but isn't good enough for the RTO types. You prefer being around people throughout the week, I do not. There's room for both to work, but dictating I have to come to an office because you like seeing people is where the frustration comes from.
- helboi4 3y ago
  Bro even people like me don't turn up to the office if there aren't mandatory days cos nobody can be arsed to go to an office where there's noone there and they haven't built a relationship with their colleagues anyway. It doesn't fulfil the needs I have if it's not a social activity. I think there should be remote jobs and hybrid jobs and you should just choose to work somewhere remote and I should choose somewhere hybrid.