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Work from home is not great for everyone. Since going fully remote, I have noticed a drastic increase in mental health and substance abuse issues among coworker

Work from home is not great for everyone. Since going fully remote, I have noticed a drastic increase in mental health and substance abuse issues among coworkers. An office job provided structure and meaningful daily contact that is not replicated in 30 minute zoom calls. Companies can decide if they want their workers to be in-person or remote, and employees can decide if they want to work for them. Saying that return to office mandates are bad for all companies is just plain dumb.

dionian 3y ago
Well, "meaningful" is relative. I don't disagree with your overall point necessarily, though I strongly prefer remote work myself.
earnesti 3y ago
Yeah. What about a free market, where everyone can start their own company and run it as they wish? If working from office is so horrible, the companies practicing it should quickly die out, and the remote-run companies should flourish. Remains to be seen.
dclowd9901 3y ago
I’m just not sure the net negatives outweigh the positives on this one. I think the best thing to do would be let folks work how they want to work. And if there is an imposition to be had, it should be against folks who “require” others to go out of their way to go into an office, since their need is quite unimportant in the face of the needs of the many many others who see a quality of life decline from RTO. There are ways to bring routine and socialization back into your life that don’t revolve around work. They need to explore those avenues before we consider the vastly negative imposition of _requiring_ people to RTO for their sole benefit.
pksebben 3y ago
Perhaps supporting people's mental health ought not to be tied to having such a job. This issue exists as well for the unemployed and folks in sectors with a minimum of human contact, and we could probably do a lot of good for society in general if this was handled outside of that context. Also, "Companies can do X and employees can decide if that works for them" is the basis of right-to-work, which is demonstrably Bad by just about any measure. I agree with the sentiment in principle, but it usually ends with some format of usury.
zer8k 3y ago
> I have noticed a drastic increase in mental health and substance abuse issues among coworkers. This anecdata is not realized in the actual data. So we can disregard this. > An office job provided structure and meaningful daily contact Of all the types of contact I had when I was in an office "meaningful" would not describe it. I have meaningful contact being able to go to my gym at a time that allows me to cook and relax afterwards. I have meaningful contact at the coffee shop I'll occasionally work from. I have meaningful contact going for a walk in the park over lunch. My health has improved because I'm not forced to go to company mandated fun-lunches or skip the gym because someone dropped by my cube and told me I'm working late. I'm healthier because I'm not driven to near suicide by the 2-3 hours I lose every day commuting. Let's not even talk about the risk adjusted lifespan I have driving every day to work and back vs. working at home. This concept of "company culture" being an employee benefit is the pinnacle of narcissism. Everything I do and say is recorded at work. Coworkers will almost certainly rat me out to HR if I'm too honest and dont toe the line. If anything, the office is arguably the least "safe" space I have in my life and under RTO I'm forced under contract to spend 8 hours there. No thanks. > Saying that return to office mandates are bad for all companies is just plain dumb. Spoken like a non-developer. My job as a staff engineer does not require me to be physically present. Grow up. This is a power grab by people who want to gaslight employees under threat of their job. Same with "cameras always on" policies and all the other bullshit. A bunch of tin-pots with a modicum of manufactured power using it to make others miserable. Nothing new under the sun.
- ZitchDog 3y ago
  You've made an incorrect assumption - I'm a developer. I work remotely. If my company had an office nearby I would gladly go.
helboi4 3y ago
yep, my mental health was awful when I was fully remote. Now I'm hybrid, I have really been able to increase my quality of life drastically. I'm so happy I found a mandatory hybrid job with a nice office culture. I was so worried that things would never stop being fully remote after covid. I could not have gone on living in a world like that. I think fully remote work is only long-term emotionally healthy for older people with families, and is stunting and isolating for younger people, especially those just starting out. People who love remote work seem to forget that maybe not everyone is mentally adjusted in the way they are. When I don't have an imperative to leave my house I slowly stop functioning. Just switching from remote to hybrid created instant improvement.
TomSwirly 3y ago
During that time there was also a pandemic that killed millions, a psychotic US President, and repeated waves of layoffs amongst tech workers. > An office job provided structure and meaningful daily contact that is not replicated in 30 minute zoom calls. I'm a very friendly guy, and always get along with my coworkers, but I go to work to work. For meaningful daily contact, I have my friends and family. The European idea of going to work, working systematically for eight hours, and then going home to your real life seems much healthier to me. Another way to see it is this: the cost of keeping a worker in an office is at least 10% of their salary. Another 5% of the workers day is spent commuting. I personally would rather have a 10% raise and another 250 hours of spare time every year. I think if you phrased it that way, most people would agree.
smcleod 3y ago
My mental health _massively_ improved since going 100% remote, it's great I have a better work life balance, get more work done, am more social with friends and am able to switch off at the end of the day easier.

dionian 3y ago

Well, "meaningful" is relative. I don't disagree with your overall point necessarily, though I strongly prefer remote work myself.

earnesti 3y ago

Yeah. What about a free market, where everyone can start their own company and run it as they wish? If working from office is so horrible, the companies practicing it should quickly die out, and the remote-run companies should flourish. Remains to be seen.

dclowd9901 3y ago

I’m just not sure the net negatives outweigh the positives on this one. I think the best thing to do would be let folks work how they want to work. And if there is an imposition to be had, it should be against folks who “require” others to go out of their way to go into an office, since their need is quite unimportant in the face of the needs of the many many others who see a quality of life decline from RTO. There are ways to bring routine and socialization back into your life that don’t revolve around work. They need to explore those avenues before we consider the vastly negative imposition of _requiring_ people to RTO for their sole benefit.

pksebben 3y ago

Perhaps supporting people's mental health ought not to be tied to having such a job. This issue exists as well for the unemployed and folks in sectors with a minimum of human contact, and we could probably do a lot of good for society in general if this was handled outside of that context. Also, "Companies can do X and employees can decide if that works for them" is the basis of right-to-work, which is demonstrably Bad by just about any measure. I agree with the sentiment in principle, but it usually ends with some format of usury.

zer8k 3y ago

> I have noticed a drastic increase in mental health and substance abuse issues among coworkers. This anecdata is not realized in the actual data. So we can disregard this. > An office job provided structure and meaningful daily contact Of all the types of contact I had when I was in an office "meaningful" would not describe it. I have meaningful contact being able to go to my gym at a time that allows me to cook and relax afterwards. I have meaningful contact at the coffee shop I'll occasionally work from. I have meaningful contact going for a walk in the park over lunch. My health has improved because I'm not forced to go to company mandated fun-lunches or skip the gym because someone dropped by my cube and told me I'm working late. I'm healthier because I'm not driven to near suicide by the 2-3 hours I lose every day commuting. Let's not even talk about the risk adjusted lifespan I have driving every day to work and back vs. working at home. This concept of "company culture" being an employee benefit is the pinnacle of narcissism. Everything I do and say is recorded at work. Coworkers will almost certainly rat me out to HR if I'm too honest and dont toe the line. If anything, the office is arguably the least "safe" space I have in my life and under RTO I'm forced under contract to spend 8 hours there. No thanks. > Saying that return to office mandates are bad for all companies is just plain dumb. Spoken like a non-developer. My job as a staff engineer does not require me to be physically present. Grow up. This is a power grab by people who want to gaslight employees under threat of their job. Same with "cameras always on" policies and all the other bullshit. A bunch of tin-pots with a modicum of manufactured power using it to make others miserable. Nothing new under the sun.

ZitchDog 3y ago
You've made an incorrect assumption - I'm a developer. I work remotely. If my company had an office nearby I would gladly go.

helboi4 3y ago

yep, my mental health was awful when I was fully remote. Now I'm hybrid, I have really been able to increase my quality of life drastically. I'm so happy I found a mandatory hybrid job with a nice office culture. I was so worried that things would never stop being fully remote after covid. I could not have gone on living in a world like that. I think fully remote work is only long-term emotionally healthy for older people with families, and is stunting and isolating for younger people, especially those just starting out. People who love remote work seem to forget that maybe not everyone is mentally adjusted in the way they are. When I don't have an imperative to leave my house I slowly stop functioning. Just switching from remote to hybrid created instant improvement.

TomSwirly 3y ago

During that time there was also a pandemic that killed millions, a psychotic US President, and repeated waves of layoffs amongst tech workers. > An office job provided structure and meaningful daily contact that is not replicated in 30 minute zoom calls. I'm a very friendly guy, and always get along with my coworkers, but I go to work to work. For meaningful daily contact, I have my friends and family. The European idea of going to work, working systematically for eight hours, and then going home to your real life seems much healthier to me. Another way to see it is this: the cost of keeping a worker in an office is at least 10% of their salary. Another 5% of the workers day is spent commuting. I personally would rather have a 10% raise and another 250 hours of spare time every year. I think if you phrased it that way, most people would agree.

smcleod 3y ago

My mental health _massively_ improved since going 100% remote, it's great I have a better work life balance, get more work done, am more social with friends and am able to switch off at the end of the day easier.