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What a terrible misreading of parent's comments, that's completely not in the spirit of HN and its guidelines[1]. You may feel like a cog in society, and at pr

What a terrible misreading of parent's comments, that's completely not in the spirit of HN and its guidelines[1]. You may feel like a cog in society, and at present, this is often not the case, compared to the situation which I talked about in a sibling comment[2]. If you disagree, try this: find a new job and put in your resignation and say that you're leaving effective immediately (or with a very short notice). Most likely, you'll have your manager and HR scrambling to get a proper handover, and sometimes followed with private comments berating you for your "lack of professionalism" and other comments like "why are you doing this to us" and "can we keep you for a little longer, please" (in violation of HR policy for the maximum notice period). In an age where AI has replaced most humans, people would lose all leverage, and would be forced into zero-sum games (killing and maiming other people to steal their wealth) as they would not have any other mechanism to prove their worth and improve their standing in society. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39743566 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39743566

squigz 3y ago
> In an age where AI has replaced most humans, people would lose all leverage, and would be forced into zero-sum games (killing and maiming other people to steal their wealth) as they would not have any other mechanism to prove their worth and improve their standing in society. I don't know about you but maybe the fact so many people determine their entire worth from their job is more problematic than inventing technology that will enable people to pursue more worthwhile objectives of their own choosing.
- supriyo-biswas 3y ago
  I strongly suspect that a forcing function that causes people to have challenges that proves their self worth, society is likely to collapse in the style of the "behavioral sink" experiment[1] (though I agree the way it'd play out in humans would be a bit different). Traditionally, these challenges have come through challenges associated with a hunter-gatherer or an agricultural lifestyle, and in contemporary times, it is associated with a job. There are other forms which can make feel people rewarded, such as through the excess consumption of food or social media activity, but since they do not have an associated mental or physical challenge, they only have negative worth and cannot be the basis for someone's self worth and value. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink
  - squigz 3y ago
    > Traditionally, these challenges have come through challenges associated with a hunter-gatherer or an agricultural lifestyle, and in contemporary times, it is associated with a job. Maybe it's time we found other "forcing functions"?
    - supriyo-biswas 3y ago
      I'm not aware of mechanisms that could replace these; could you propose some that would work in a world where most or all jobs have been replaced with AI or other automated systems?
      - squigz 3y ago
        Practically everything that people do that isn't a "job" - sports, cooking, crafts, philosophy, etc. In short, "creating stuff" Furthermore, it seems silly to me to think that all human intellectual endeavors will simply disappear. We will still need to drive science, build bigger and better AI systems, improve and repair the world, etc.
squigz 3y ago
> Most likely, you'll have your manager and HR scrambling to get a proper handover, and sometimes followed with private comments berating you for your "lack of professionalism" and other comments like "why are you doing this to us" and "can we keep you for a little longer, please" (in violation of HR policy for the maximum notice period). And your takeaway from this would be that that worker is an invaluable member of the company? They don't care about workers, they care about their bottom line. If they could easily replace workers, they wouldn't say anything and would just make sure you clear out your desk before you leave.
- supriyo-biswas 3y ago
  I'd argue being able to affect the bottom line is not nothing (especially if you compare the wealth difference between you and the company), and the source of what allows you to negotiate salary hikes, for example.
  - squigz 3y ago
    I don't disagree, but also don't believe this is mutually exclusive to being a cog in a company
squigz 3y ago
> What a terrible misreading of parent's comments, that's completely not in the spirit of HN and its guidelines[1]. And not that I agree my comment goes against the guidelines, but let me be generous and ask this of GP: What autonomy over your life now would you lose if AI were to become as prevalent as you're implying?
squigz 3y ago
While I disagree with much of what is expressed here, I don't think the downvotes are necessarily deserved

squigz 3y ago

> In an age where AI has replaced most humans, people would lose all leverage, and would be forced into zero-sum games (killing and maiming other people to steal their wealth) as they would not have any other mechanism to prove their worth and improve their standing in society. I don't know about you but maybe the fact so many people determine their entire worth from their job is more problematic than inventing technology that will enable people to pursue more worthwhile objectives of their own choosing.

supriyo-biswas 3y ago
I strongly suspect that a forcing function that causes people to have challenges that proves their self worth, society is likely to collapse in the style of the "behavioral sink" experiment[1] (though I agree the way it'd play out in humans would be a bit different). Traditionally, these challenges have come through challenges associated with a hunter-gatherer or an agricultural lifestyle, and in contemporary times, it is associated with a job. There are other forms which can make feel people rewarded, such as through the excess consumption of food or social media activity, but since they do not have an associated mental or physical challenge, they only have negative worth and cannot be the basis for someone's self worth and value. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink
- squigz 3y ago
  > Traditionally, these challenges have come through challenges associated with a hunter-gatherer or an agricultural lifestyle, and in contemporary times, it is associated with a job. Maybe it's time we found other "forcing functions"?
  - supriyo-biswas 3y ago
    I'm not aware of mechanisms that could replace these; could you propose some that would work in a world where most or all jobs have been replaced with AI or other automated systems?
    - squigz 3y ago
      Practically everything that people do that isn't a "job" - sports, cooking, crafts, philosophy, etc. In short, "creating stuff" Furthermore, it seems silly to me to think that all human intellectual endeavors will simply disappear. We will still need to drive science, build bigger and better AI systems, improve and repair the world, etc.

squigz 3y ago

> Most likely, you'll have your manager and HR scrambling to get a proper handover, and sometimes followed with private comments berating you for your "lack of professionalism" and other comments like "why are you doing this to us" and "can we keep you for a little longer, please" (in violation of HR policy for the maximum notice period). And your takeaway from this would be that that worker is an invaluable member of the company? They don't care about workers, they care about their bottom line. If they could easily replace workers, they wouldn't say anything and would just make sure you clear out your desk before you leave.

supriyo-biswas 3y ago
I'd argue being able to affect the bottom line is not nothing (especially if you compare the wealth difference between you and the company), and the source of what allows you to negotiate salary hikes, for example.
- squigz 3y ago
  I don't disagree, but also don't believe this is mutually exclusive to being a cog in a company

squigz 3y ago

> What a terrible misreading of parent's comments, that's completely not in the spirit of HN and its guidelines[1]. And not that I agree my comment goes against the guidelines, but let me be generous and ask this of GP: What autonomy over your life now would you lose if AI were to become as prevalent as you're implying?

squigz 3y ago

While I disagree with much of what is expressed here, I don't think the downvotes are necessarily deserved