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Hot take: rapid acceleration and braking are symptoms of bad driving, and bad driving should come with barriers to being on the road with us and landing in our

Hot take: rapid acceleration and braking are symptoms of bad driving, and bad driving should come with barriers to being on the road with us and landing in our insurance pools. Driving information is fine to collect on public roads, and it should be ubiquitous rather than something collected in secret. Meanwhile in Texas, red light cameras can’t even be used to give tickets anymore.

trgn 3y ago
100%. There is only one way to drive; calm and considerate. Need to do everything to make sure drivers actually drive like this.
prepend 3y ago
What’s rapid acceleration? What’s hard braking? Are the cars measuring it accurately? Why do I want my property reporting this data without my consent?
- krastanov 3y ago
  It is a balance though. I do not like my property doing this type of reporting and I equally dislike someone else's property reporting data about me (e.g. a speed camera). But I do want everyone that uses a public good for which we pay together (roads) to follow certain rules and I want those rules enforced. These two preferences of mine are in conflict, as it is usual when considering the "commons".
  - kelnos 3y ago
    This has nothing to do with rules enforcement, though. This just affects insurance premiums.
NikolaNovak 3y ago
>>Hot take: rapid acceleration and braking are symptoms of bad driving I might not fully agree with that (that may be what makes it hot take:) I've been driving 30 years now, which means nothing (I firmly disagree with notion that "driving a long time" is the same as "driving well" or "being experienced":). I've taken about half a dozen safety driving courses though, and another half a dozen advanced driving courses, which hopefully might count for something - intent if nothing else. I'm trying to always be learning, practicing, paying attention to something when I'm driving - whether observational practices, state of mind, or particular skills in snow or rain etc. I would call myself a very defensive, occasionally aggressive driver. I don't think opposite of defensive is aggressive, or that safe and defensive are same as slow. I think opposite of defensive is offensive. I try to be acutely aware of the conditions, traffic, situation, and risk - there are few people who are as paranoid about vision obstructions as I am (e.g. kid jumping behind parked car in a residential neighbourhood etc). I also try to be predictable - just like UI/UX shouldn't surprise user, I don't think I should surprise fellow drivers :). I am generally considered by friends and family to be annoyingly cautions, safe, observant, usually slow driver. But I absolutely positively do undertake rapid acceleration and rapid braking at times, and most of the safest drivers I know do. My experience is that safest drivers are active drivers. There's myriad different reasons to undertake rapid acceleration and braking, under myriad different circumstances and intents. But I am terrified of the future where insurance and police algorithm put a straight equation sign between them :-/
- EPWN3D 3y ago
  I think that proper defensive driving is about identifying risks around you and achieving separation from those risks proactively. That can involve "classic" defensive driving stuff like going the speed limit, staying in your lane, etc. But it can also involve passing a driver who's clearly not paying attention so they (and their decisions) take place behind you, where they can't hurt you. For example, if I'm behind a vehicle that's constantly braking because the driver is screwing around with their phone, I'm passing the fucker. That vehicle is dangerous and being operated by a moron, and I'm not going to subject myself to that risk. Similarly, if I see a car weaving through traffic in my rearview, I'm going to temporarily close the gap with the car in front of me so that the wannabe street racer doesn't get tempted to swipe in front of me. These are both things that classic defensive driving tell you to absolutely never do, but for me, they mitigate the most proximate risks.
- kelnos 3y ago
  > I firmly disagree with notion that "driving a long time" is the same as "driving well" or "being experienced" As they say, some people have 30 years of experience, and others have 1 year of experience, 30 times.
moolcool 3y ago
The opposition to this isn't "reckless driving is good, actually", it's "surveillance capitalism is creepy and bad".
delfinom 3y ago
In my NY suburbs, there are intersections you have to gun it because the local nimbys refuse traffic light installs. (Long story short, there's one university here that has to use their state troopers to assert authority and shut local roads every hour for the commuter class change rush because the local morons refuse traffic signal changes, same university also had to use eminent domain to build sidewalks, lololololol) O man, you should see our parkways, you only have 20 feet of ramp to reach highway speeds or you will die. Same for exiting and you need to brake from highway speeds. Just an example where hard acceleration != bad driving
kelnos 3y ago
> rapid acceleration and braking are symptoms of bad driving Big fat "citation needed". I haven't seen convincing evidence that supports this at all. And even if such evidence exists, I think there are a lot of edge cases: like what if your daily commute involves entering or leaving a highway where the ramp is unusually short? You're going to have to accelerate hard to come up to speed, or brake hard to get down to a safe speed. Should people be penalized for that? I would hope not, that the software would consider that to be infrequent, but I don't trust other people's closed-source software to make decisions that can greatly affect people's finances. (For the record, I don't think I accelerate or brake particularly hard all that often, so I'm not trying to protect myself here; I have no dog in this race aside from a desire to protect people's privacy and minimize surveillance capitalism.)

trgn 3y ago

100%. There is only one way to drive; calm and considerate. Need to do everything to make sure drivers actually drive like this.

prepend 3y ago

What’s rapid acceleration? What’s hard braking? Are the cars measuring it accurately? Why do I want my property reporting this data without my consent?

krastanov 3y ago
It is a balance though. I do not like my property doing this type of reporting and I equally dislike someone else's property reporting data about me (e.g. a speed camera). But I do want everyone that uses a public good for which we pay together (roads) to follow certain rules and I want those rules enforced. These two preferences of mine are in conflict, as it is usual when considering the "commons".
- kelnos 3y ago
  This has nothing to do with rules enforcement, though. This just affects insurance premiums.

NikolaNovak 3y ago

>>Hot take: rapid acceleration and braking are symptoms of bad driving I might not fully agree with that (that may be what makes it hot take:) I've been driving 30 years now, which means nothing (I firmly disagree with notion that "driving a long time" is the same as "driving well" or "being experienced":). I've taken about half a dozen safety driving courses though, and another half a dozen advanced driving courses, which hopefully might count for something - intent if nothing else. I'm trying to always be learning, practicing, paying attention to something when I'm driving - whether observational practices, state of mind, or particular skills in snow or rain etc. I would call myself a very defensive, occasionally aggressive driver. I don't think opposite of defensive is aggressive, or that safe and defensive are same as slow. I think opposite of defensive is offensive. I try to be acutely aware of the conditions, traffic, situation, and risk - there are few people who are as paranoid about vision obstructions as I am (e.g. kid jumping behind parked car in a residential neighbourhood etc). I also try to be predictable - just like UI/UX shouldn't surprise user, I don't think I should surprise fellow drivers :). I am generally considered by friends and family to be annoyingly cautions, safe, observant, usually slow driver. But I absolutely positively do undertake rapid acceleration and rapid braking at times, and most of the safest drivers I know do. My experience is that safest drivers are active drivers. There's myriad different reasons to undertake rapid acceleration and braking, under myriad different circumstances and intents. But I am terrified of the future where insurance and police algorithm put a straight equation sign between them :-/

EPWN3D 3y ago
I think that proper defensive driving is about identifying risks around you and achieving separation from those risks proactively. That can involve "classic" defensive driving stuff like going the speed limit, staying in your lane, etc. But it can also involve passing a driver who's clearly not paying attention so they (and their decisions) take place behind you, where they can't hurt you. For example, if I'm behind a vehicle that's constantly braking because the driver is screwing around with their phone, I'm passing the fucker. That vehicle is dangerous and being operated by a moron, and I'm not going to subject myself to that risk. Similarly, if I see a car weaving through traffic in my rearview, I'm going to temporarily close the gap with the car in front of me so that the wannabe street racer doesn't get tempted to swipe in front of me. These are both things that classic defensive driving tell you to absolutely never do, but for me, they mitigate the most proximate risks.
kelnos 3y ago
> I firmly disagree with notion that "driving a long time" is the same as "driving well" or "being experienced" As they say, some people have 30 years of experience, and others have 1 year of experience, 30 times.

moolcool 3y ago

The opposition to this isn't "reckless driving is good, actually", it's "surveillance capitalism is creepy and bad".

delfinom 3y ago

In my NY suburbs, there are intersections you have to gun it because the local nimbys refuse traffic light installs. (Long story short, there's one university here that has to use their state troopers to assert authority and shut local roads every hour for the commuter class change rush because the local morons refuse traffic signal changes, same university also had to use eminent domain to build sidewalks, lololololol) O man, you should see our parkways, you only have 20 feet of ramp to reach highway speeds or you will die. Same for exiting and you need to brake from highway speeds. Just an example where hard acceleration != bad driving

kelnos 3y ago

> rapid acceleration and braking are symptoms of bad driving Big fat "citation needed". I haven't seen convincing evidence that supports this at all. And even if such evidence exists, I think there are a lot of edge cases: like what if your daily commute involves entering or leaving a highway where the ramp is unusually short? You're going to have to accelerate hard to come up to speed, or brake hard to get down to a safe speed. Should people be penalized for that? I would hope not, that the software would consider that to be infrequent, but I don't trust other people's closed-source software to make decisions that can greatly affect people's finances. (For the record, I don't think I accelerate or brake particularly hard all that often, so I'm not trying to protect myself here; I have no dog in this race aside from a desire to protect people's privacy and minimize surveillance capitalism.)