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That would be very difficult to say since we've never really been in an Austrian economic system. Austrians will point out that the knob twiddling done by Keyne

That would be very difficult to say since we've never really been in an Austrian economic system. Austrians will point out that the knob twiddling done by Keynesians is a method of postponing or spreading out the pain of a recession over a large number of years. You can only do that so often before this creates a self-reinforcing mother-of-all-recessions where the accumulated debt and unhealthy investment comes crashing down. We have pushed our debt forward to our grandchildren since 1971. This is morally repugnant and hardly humane.

RandomLensman 3y ago
Given how heterodox the Austrian school is: what would it even mean to have an Austrian economic system and how would it differ (and some Austrian ideas are part of "mainstream" economics anyway)?
- nyokodo 3y ago
  > what would it even mean to have an Austrian economic system and how would it differ It’s difficult to know exactly, but you would have an unmanaged system. No reserve bank, no stimulus, no regulation, minimum to no restraint on trade depending on how anarchist the Austrian Economist happens to be.
  - RandomLensman 3y ago
    You'd probably need different humans for that - societies tend to put some limits and controls in place.
    - nyokodo 3y ago
      > societies tend to put some limits and controls in place. It’s not just a tendency, societies always have limits and controls in place. The anarcho-capitalist wing of Austrian Economics would propose limits and controls too, but not centrally controlled involuntary limits and controls. There’s no real world government, nations relate to each other in a more or less anarchic manner where the limits and controls are voluntary but the consequences short of war are being sanctioned ie not being traded with. Anarcho-capitalists would probably propose a system like that for individuals. Would that require a different kind of person? Maybe, my own views certainly differ with them.
    - ddtaylor 3y ago
      Why is the government the only entity that can or should provide banking or stimulus?
      - RandomLensman 3y ago
        People could decide privately on banking regulation, but then it's quite close to a meaningless distinction between government and people as both would effectively coerce holdouts. For stimulus the current sizes are just beyond any other organization. Could perhaps be some distributed system, but then why would it be better than delegation?
skhunted 3y ago
The last mother-of-all-recessions where the accumulated debt and unhealthy investment comes crashing down. that happened in the U.S. was before Keynesian principles were used. It was the use of Keynesian principles that helped FDR win 3 elections. Im not an economist so anyone with a moderate amount of training will run circles around me in a discussion about economics. So I’ll just say two more things. Your comment about Austrian economics never having been implemented reminds me of leftists who say communism has never been implemented so we can’t say communism doesn’t work. Secondly, before Keynesian economics recessions and depressions occurred much more frequently in the U.S. The data seems to clearly point to at least some level of success of Keynesian economics.
- nyokodo 3y ago
  > Your comment about Austrian economics never having been implemented reminds me of leftists who say communism has never been implemented so we can’t say communism doesn’t work Maybe, however the difference being that there are many countries and regions that have claimed to be communist for over a century but none that have claimed to be adhering to Austrian Economics.
  - skhunted 3y ago
    Pretty much every country implemented Austrian economics principles before that became a term.
    - nyokodo 3y ago
      > pretty much every country implemented Austrian economics principles Looking at history I’m seeing pretty much every country having a government controlled and manipulated currency, mercantilist restraint of trade, guilds and unions with government enforced monopolies fixing prices, central banks, pseudo-governmental corporations, and on and on. Those are all antithetical to Austrian economic principles. Can you point me to the overwhelming historical examples you were referring to?
      - 3y ago
analog31 3y ago
In that sense, we've always been in an Austrian system, i.e., one in which disaster is always just around the corner.

RandomLensman 3y ago

Given how heterodox the Austrian school is: what would it even mean to have an Austrian economic system and how would it differ (and some Austrian ideas are part of "mainstream" economics anyway)?

nyokodo 3y ago
> what would it even mean to have an Austrian economic system and how would it differ It’s difficult to know exactly, but you would have an unmanaged system. No reserve bank, no stimulus, no regulation, minimum to no restraint on trade depending on how anarchist the Austrian Economist happens to be.
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  You'd probably need different humans for that - societies tend to put some limits and controls in place.
  - nyokodo 3y ago
    > societies tend to put some limits and controls in place. It’s not just a tendency, societies always have limits and controls in place. The anarcho-capitalist wing of Austrian Economics would propose limits and controls too, but not centrally controlled involuntary limits and controls. There’s no real world government, nations relate to each other in a more or less anarchic manner where the limits and controls are voluntary but the consequences short of war are being sanctioned ie not being traded with. Anarcho-capitalists would probably propose a system like that for individuals. Would that require a different kind of person? Maybe, my own views certainly differ with them.
  - ddtaylor 3y ago
    Why is the government the only entity that can or should provide banking or stimulus?
    - RandomLensman 3y ago
      People could decide privately on banking regulation, but then it's quite close to a meaningless distinction between government and people as both would effectively coerce holdouts. For stimulus the current sizes are just beyond any other organization. Could perhaps be some distributed system, but then why would it be better than delegation?

skhunted 3y ago

The last mother-of-all-recessions where the accumulated debt and unhealthy investment comes crashing down. that happened in the U.S. was before Keynesian principles were used. It was the use of Keynesian principles that helped FDR win 3 elections. Im not an economist so anyone with a moderate amount of training will run circles around me in a discussion about economics. So I’ll just say two more things. Your comment about Austrian economics never having been implemented reminds me of leftists who say communism has never been implemented so we can’t say communism doesn’t work. Secondly, before Keynesian economics recessions and depressions occurred much more frequently in the U.S. The data seems to clearly point to at least some level of success of Keynesian economics.

nyokodo 3y ago
> Your comment about Austrian economics never having been implemented reminds me of leftists who say communism has never been implemented so we can’t say communism doesn’t work Maybe, however the difference being that there are many countries and regions that have claimed to be communist for over a century but none that have claimed to be adhering to Austrian Economics.
- skhunted 3y ago
  Pretty much every country implemented Austrian economics principles before that became a term.
  - nyokodo 3y ago
    > pretty much every country implemented Austrian economics principles Looking at history I’m seeing pretty much every country having a government controlled and manipulated currency, mercantilist restraint of trade, guilds and unions with government enforced monopolies fixing prices, central banks, pseudo-governmental corporations, and on and on. Those are all antithetical to Austrian economic principles. Can you point me to the overwhelming historical examples you were referring to?
    - 3y ago

analog31 3y ago

In that sense, we've always been in an Austrian system, i.e., one in which disaster is always just around the corner.