5 ms·

It's called "nagging", and it's pretty effective. On the web, you'll see plenty of "nag" modals, that's how many of them are named. In devices such as TVs and S

It's called "nagging", and it's pretty effective. On the web, you'll see plenty of "nag" modals, that's how many of them are named. In devices such as TVs and Smartphones, the nagging screens are usually about OS updates and the likes, they nag you until you click the wrong button or give up and click the one the corporation wants you to click. Same with Microsoft, they're not unique, it's the standard practise everywhere. Nagging as a dark pattern should be made illegal.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sebstefan 3y ago
Depends on the purpose I imagine If you stop nagging users to update their software it's going to make everybody's operational security even worse than before
- izacus 3y ago
  Threathening people with "you'll lose security so evil guys will come to get ya" so they take user hostile updates and UI roulette is dark pattern by itself. If the companies continue to bundle adware updates with security updates, lesser security might actually be a better outcome for users.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    This is essentially what the mafia security rackets use. Maybe they should reword their modals to say "it's be a real shame if something were to happen since you didn't update like we suggested"
  - lp0_on_fire 3y ago
    Extortion is the word you're looking for, imo.
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  The problem here is that it's very easy to argue a lot of these prompts as "security". - Upgrade to Windows 11, our most secure operating system ever! (more secure against which benchmark?) - Switch to Bing, our most secure browser ever! - Enter your phone number into Facebook to help secure your account! (translation: we want another data point to track you) None of the above is technically wrong, but it doesn't mean that the intention of the nagging is to protect users.
  - siggen 3y ago
    > - Upgrade to Windows 11, our most secure operating system ever! This one should be in comparison to Windows 10 wrt benchmark.
    - hnlmorg 3y ago
      The problem is "secure" is a vague term and thus easy to gamify. eg is it secure because of fewer CVEs? You'd probably expect fewer CVEs because it is newer, so that doesn't mean it is more "secure" in any meaningful way but it's definitely an easy position to defend if someone were to challenge Microsoft's claim.
      - userbinator 3y ago
        Look up the number of CVEs by OS and you'll find the results are... amusing.
    - tremon 3y ago
      Not if the claim contains "ever". They would need to prove that Windows 11 has fewer vulnerabilities than e.g. MS-DOS 6.22.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        how secure is MS-DOS 6.22 though. sure, there's no networking access, but is the code secure in other ways? what kind of code was just never exposed to fully reveal how fragile they were? there has always been software slightly less fragile than a house of cards. people were just much less incentivized to poke them the way they are today
- account42 3y ago
  I know I regularly update my Linux desktop but keep dismissing the upgrade prompt on my Android phone because no way I am going to do what it wants after it so rudely interrupted me.
JKCalhoun 3y ago
(Chrome constantly asking me to make Chrome my default browser because I guess there's no mechanism for storing what my reply was the first 100 times I was asked.)
- nottorp 3y ago
  It's illegal to retain user data without permission :) ... when it suits them.
- ljm 3y ago
  'Accept' and it's enthusiastically memorised for all time. 'Decline' and it has selective memory.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Most of Silicon Valley has a huge problem with user consent. Imagine if “Silicon Valley” was a guy in a night club. His line on women would be “Wanna dance? [Yes] [Ask me again in 5 minutes].”
- tsycho 3y ago
  Which OS are you taking about? In this article's context (Windows), you would have put in the effort to download Chrome yourself and then used it, which is a heck of a lot of intent, as compared to what Microsoft is doing here.
  - TheLML 3y ago
    That still wouldn't justify being asked a hundred times. But I also cannot relate. I use Firefox as my main browser and start Chrome and Edge semi-regularly. Only Edge keeps asking me to make it my default browser. And then of course there were the few times where a Windows update "accidentally" set Edge as my default browser.
    - asadotzler 3y ago
      The second checkbox in Firefox's Settings panel is "Always check if Firefox is your default browser" and I have every reason to believe that Firefox respects that setting. Do the other browsers not have a similar setting? I don't have Chrome so cannot check but Edge doesn't seem to have this at the top of their settings and perhaps nowhere in their settings. Consider a browser that's not so hostile :D
userbinator 3y ago
"Nagware" was a subset of shareware for a long time.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

sebstefan 3y ago

Depends on the purpose I imagine If you stop nagging users to update their software it's going to make everybody's operational security even worse than before

izacus 3y ago
Threathening people with "you'll lose security so evil guys will come to get ya" so they take user hostile updates and UI roulette is dark pattern by itself. If the companies continue to bundle adware updates with security updates, lesser security might actually be a better outcome for users.
- dylan604 3y ago
  This is essentially what the mafia security rackets use. Maybe they should reword their modals to say "it's be a real shame if something were to happen since you didn't update like we suggested"
- lp0_on_fire 3y ago
  Extortion is the word you're looking for, imo.
hnlmorg 3y ago
The problem here is that it's very easy to argue a lot of these prompts as "security". - Upgrade to Windows 11, our most secure operating system ever! (more secure against which benchmark?) - Switch to Bing, our most secure browser ever! - Enter your phone number into Facebook to help secure your account! (translation: we want another data point to track you) None of the above is technically wrong, but it doesn't mean that the intention of the nagging is to protect users.
- siggen 3y ago
  > - Upgrade to Windows 11, our most secure operating system ever! This one should be in comparison to Windows 10 wrt benchmark.
  - hnlmorg 3y ago
    The problem is "secure" is a vague term and thus easy to gamify. eg is it secure because of fewer CVEs? You'd probably expect fewer CVEs because it is newer, so that doesn't mean it is more "secure" in any meaningful way but it's definitely an easy position to defend if someone were to challenge Microsoft's claim.
    - userbinator 3y ago
      Look up the number of CVEs by OS and you'll find the results are... amusing.
  - tremon 3y ago
    Not if the claim contains "ever". They would need to prove that Windows 11 has fewer vulnerabilities than e.g. MS-DOS 6.22.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      how secure is MS-DOS 6.22 though. sure, there's no networking access, but is the code secure in other ways? what kind of code was just never exposed to fully reveal how fragile they were? there has always been software slightly less fragile than a house of cards. people were just much less incentivized to poke them the way they are today
account42 3y ago
I know I regularly update my Linux desktop but keep dismissing the upgrade prompt on my Android phone because no way I am going to do what it wants after it so rudely interrupted me.

JKCalhoun 3y ago

(Chrome constantly asking me to make Chrome my default browser because I guess there's no mechanism for storing what my reply was the first 100 times I was asked.)

nottorp 3y ago
It's illegal to retain user data without permission :) ... when it suits them.
ljm 3y ago
'Accept' and it's enthusiastically memorised for all time. 'Decline' and it has selective memory.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Most of Silicon Valley has a huge problem with user consent. Imagine if “Silicon Valley” was a guy in a night club. His line on women would be “Wanna dance? [Yes] [Ask me again in 5 minutes].”
tsycho 3y ago
Which OS are you taking about? In this article's context (Windows), you would have put in the effort to download Chrome yourself and then used it, which is a heck of a lot of intent, as compared to what Microsoft is doing here.
- TheLML 3y ago
  That still wouldn't justify being asked a hundred times. But I also cannot relate. I use Firefox as my main browser and start Chrome and Edge semi-regularly. Only Edge keeps asking me to make it my default browser. And then of course there were the few times where a Windows update "accidentally" set Edge as my default browser.
  - asadotzler 3y ago
    The second checkbox in Firefox's Settings panel is "Always check if Firefox is your default browser" and I have every reason to believe that Firefox respects that setting. Do the other browsers not have a similar setting? I don't have Chrome so cannot check but Edge doesn't seem to have this at the top of their settings and perhaps nowhere in their settings. Consider a browser that's not so hostile :D

userbinator 3y ago

"Nagware" was a subset of shareware for a long time.