7 ms·

To Delay Death, Lift Weights (2017)

50 points by makerdiety 3y ago

sn9 3y ago
I'd strongly recommend the Barbell Medicine podcast for those interested in evidence-based discussion about the role of strength training and exercise in general on health, longevity, and quality of life. Just scroll through their episode list for anything that looks interesting or relevant.
gopal_virtual 3y ago
I would rather choose to live healthy than living longer. However, fact is, most of physical health deterioration starts from mental agony. Mental health is directly correlated to physical health. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9840511/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9840511/)
- tjoff 3y ago
  I agree, so, lift weights? (Among other things...)
  - gopal_virtual 3y ago
    Yeah, as long as it keeps you sane.
2-718-281-828 3y ago
not going to lift weights then lol
polishdude20 3y ago
It would be interesting to know what low strength people usually die from. One example where muscle mass would reign supreme would be in fall related deaths. Strength helps balance and helps prevent a fall in the first place. It also helps catch a fall. Strength training also strengthens bones so that would help you avoid a broken hip. Then if you do break a hip, your extra muscle mass and strength will deplete but not to the point where you're now bedridden. It's money in the bank.
- micromacrofoot 3y ago
  could easily be a combination of many things like this (though a healthier heart probably overshadows most)
- klipt 3y ago
  Bone strength is usually the weak link. When people "fall and break a hip", almost always it's actually their hip breaks first, which makes them fall.
  - lupire 3y ago
    This 1994 papers agree with you, but that's rarely mentioned medical advice. Of course, weak hips are prone to fracture whether that fracture is before or during a fall. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8206455/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8206455/
  - cjbgkagh 3y ago
    I had no idea. That’s crazy.
  - arrowsmith 3y ago
    So how does one preserve their bone strength into old age?
    - sn9 3y ago
      Strength training strengthens more than just muscles. Bones adapt to the increased demand on them as well. There are even cardiovascular benefits, though it doesn't replace aerobic exercise.
    - kemayo 3y ago
      It's repeating what the GP said, but: exercise. Your bones are strengthened by use -- put them under mild stress by doing load-bearing exercise and they'll get stronger. (Getting plenty of calcium and vitamin D probably helps, but there's a lot of argument about whether supplements actually work there.)
    - 3y ago
mattjenner 3y ago
In addition - grip strength can be as important and it also builds brain strength. An amazing case of: Use it, or lose it. I've have two hand grips on my desk for this reason, every long refresh or boring meeting - I'm grip strengthening. "grip strength is also an independent and significant predictor of all cause mortality. How strong your grip is, is going to tell us a ton about how you're going to live." https://zoe.com/learn/podcast-exercise-and-living-longer https://zoe.com/learn/podcast-exercise-and-living-longer
- sn9 3y ago
  Grip strength is a proxy for whole body strength. Training grip strength for health benefits instead of engaging in strength training is like turning a dashboard green instead of fixing the underlying issues.
  - aws_ls 3y ago
    Yes, Peter Attia says this precise thing in his book 'Outlive' and also his podcasts. I stopped using the gripper after that. I started lifting weights 1 year and 2 months back - whole body compound lifts i.e. deadlift, squats, bench press, overhead press - and results are phenomenal. Before that had been doing body weight for a decade push ups/ pull ups/ planks, and for some reason thought it was sufficient for me. Only when I pivoted to these (lifting weights) after a chronic pain developed due to excessive running, did I feel the difference. Overall lifting weights and counting protein intake seems to be life changing. The chronic pain also went away.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Does just doing grip strength exercises cause people to live longer? Or is the correlation a result of the fact that activities that increase grip strength increase longevity (or are only able to be done by people who are very healthy)?
  - fbdab103 3y ago
    Inclined to side with you. Prior to specialized gripping exercises, I would think the people with the strongest grips developed it from hard effort: lifting weights, rock climbing, trade work, etc.
librish 3y ago
Whenever you see discussions about longevity online there are a lot of people who come off as either die-hard enthusiasts or self-proclaimed gurus. They'll sink a lot of time, money, and effort into the field. Frequently though, whenever you see their profile picture, they are not fit. Why is that? Many of them clearly have the means, intelligence, and interest to know that a fit body is a great predictor of longevity and a good healthspan. Is it failure to execute on what they know they should do? Is there competing information steering them along a different path?
- mechhacker 3y ago
  A good counterpoint to show someone who did stay fit is Jack LaLanne.
jajko 3y ago
And the best weight by far to lift - your own weight. Our bodies are naturally designed to work with this weight (unless you are obese), our joints and connective tissue is literally built to match it. If given movement becomes too easy, just slow it down, add repetitions, modify slightly and voila - challenge is back. Sure, with weightlifting you strengthen everything including those joints, but only to certain amount, and road there is full of booby traps in form of variously crippling injuries. Look at powerlifters, how much joint protection they need just to perform, and look how they look retired (if they are actually still around, most have massive weight issues). People who consistently want to look like Arnold and actually execute it have often some deep childhood issues they are compensating with working out insanely (and taking various chemical crap that bites back later to stay on top). Being lean, have decent power and endless stamina is literal heaven for everything you ever wanted to do - work, longevity, sex, confidence, happiness, women love it. Supplement it with moderate weights, for sure, even include them in workouts (ie in nature hiking with heavy backpacks with camping/climbing gear is amazing). Or weighted squats in very good form. But only once you built a very solid base in joints and connective tissue with easier stuff repeated a lot, for some time. Patience as with everything else is the key to long term performance. And discussed longevity requires decades of consistent efforts. Or do it like my grandparents, both lived till 95 - have a decent garden with various fruits and vegetables, take proper care of it daily. Just find something to do in winters too (ie ski touring). And no vices ala alcohol nor cigarettes.
- no_wizard 3y ago
  Any advice on this that makes it not so boring? Push ups, squats etc. I find so mentally unstimulating it feels like torture to my brain. Podcasts audiobooks etc only help so much. On the elliptical I can watch documentaries which makes it tolerable to enjoyable depending on my mood so I stick to the elliptical but I know I need resistance training (re: weight training) but I hate the boredom
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
    I'm on the same boat, I tried every trick and it doesn't work. The two things that do help is whem I got to my maximum, lifting the weight was really hard, so I don't have too much leeway to think about anything else beside the movement or I'll injure myself. I ended up preferring music i already listened to many times just to cover the noise i don't listen to it. The really boring part are the 90s breaks in between. I read a book during that time, at least I look forward something in between the reps. Finally, going 6 times a week (3 cardio and 3 strength) has been the biggest help. With 4 I will say "i'm tired, I'll do it tomorrow". With 6 I say "tomorrow I have to do two sessions in one day if I don't go", so I don't want to skip. Combine that with the new mindset of "it's weird not going to the gym today" because I go so often, it's been really helpful. I also minimize the time spent in the gym: 1 hour for the strength training (30 minutes are spent resting, haven't found a way to speed that up), and 30 minutes HIIT training for cardio. Cardio is so short that doesn't bother me anymore and it's so intense that I don't have much time to feel bored.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bjornsing 3y ago
It’s worth remembering here that correlation is not causation. An alternative explanation is (simply) that healthy people have stronger muscles, and are also less likely to die in the coming decade.
efilife 3y ago
I don't see the point of delaying it
ramijames 3y ago
How do I speed death up? How about an article on that?
- mmh0000 3y ago
  How fast do you want it? Speed: A firearm is hard to beat, but it leaves a bit of a mess for whoever finds you. An Exit Bag[1] is another option, though, you really got to have the willpower to follow through. Slow: Alcohol, tobacco, STDs, Meth, Fent, you know... All the fun stuff! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bag
- timbit42 3y ago
  Do you mean causing it to happen earlier or to cause it to happen faster after it begins?
  - ramijames 3y ago
    Yes
dghughes 3y ago
Of the recent deaths of my friends and family (a middle age thing) 90% of them were due to a heart attack no matter what other problems they had. Some seemingly had no health issues other than old age. Of the people I know of who live well mid and old age all are active daily. I've gone from an active job to a sedentary office job so I am in mortal danger. I'm in the worst shape of my life at an age when that is very bad. Motivation is zero. I had gone to the gym for 20 years but for social and work reasons I an anxious to go back. I just do some light biking (20km to 30km x 2 or 3 days/wk) in the summer. Even my Dad with terrible lung capacity was active; hockey games, light home repairs, fishing, grocery shopping, visiting family and friends. Even with his oxygen generator that barely got him there in the end. When he lost his mobility it was a quick downturn and he died only about six months later. Be active daily at all costs.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
helph67 3y ago
I suggest that the older we get the more we NEED turkey and soy! https://scienmag.com/major-research-initiative-explores-how-our-bones-and-muscles-age-new-ways-to-block-their-decline/ https://scienmag.com/major-research-initiative-explores-how-...

50 points by makerdiety 3y ago

sn9 3y ago

I'd strongly recommend the Barbell Medicine podcast for those interested in evidence-based discussion about the role of strength training and exercise in general on health, longevity, and quality of life. Just scroll through their episode list for anything that looks interesting or relevant.

gopal_virtual 3y ago

I would rather choose to live healthy than living longer. However, fact is, most of physical health deterioration starts from mental agony. Mental health is directly correlated to physical health. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9840511/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9840511/)

tjoff 3y ago
I agree, so, lift weights? (Among other things...)
- gopal_virtual 3y ago
  Yeah, as long as it keeps you sane.

2-718-281-828 3y ago

not going to lift weights then lol

polishdude20 3y ago

It would be interesting to know what low strength people usually die from. One example where muscle mass would reign supreme would be in fall related deaths. Strength helps balance and helps prevent a fall in the first place. It also helps catch a fall. Strength training also strengthens bones so that would help you avoid a broken hip. Then if you do break a hip, your extra muscle mass and strength will deplete but not to the point where you're now bedridden. It's money in the bank.

micromacrofoot 3y ago
could easily be a combination of many things like this (though a healthier heart probably overshadows most)
klipt 3y ago
Bone strength is usually the weak link. When people "fall and break a hip", almost always it's actually their hip breaks first, which makes them fall.
- lupire 3y ago
  This 1994 papers agree with you, but that's rarely mentioned medical advice. Of course, weak hips are prone to fracture whether that fracture is before or during a fall. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8206455/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8206455/
- cjbgkagh 3y ago
  I had no idea. That’s crazy.
- arrowsmith 3y ago
  So how does one preserve their bone strength into old age?
  - sn9 3y ago
    Strength training strengthens more than just muscles. Bones adapt to the increased demand on them as well. There are even cardiovascular benefits, though it doesn't replace aerobic exercise.
  - kemayo 3y ago
    It's repeating what the GP said, but: exercise. Your bones are strengthened by use -- put them under mild stress by doing load-bearing exercise and they'll get stronger. (Getting plenty of calcium and vitamin D probably helps, but there's a lot of argument about whether supplements actually work there.)
  - 3y ago

mattjenner 3y ago

In addition - grip strength can be as important and it also builds brain strength. An amazing case of: Use it, or lose it. I've have two hand grips on my desk for this reason, every long refresh or boring meeting - I'm grip strengthening. "grip strength is also an independent and significant predictor of all cause mortality. How strong your grip is, is going to tell us a ton about how you're going to live." https://zoe.com/learn/podcast-exercise-and-living-longer https://zoe.com/learn/podcast-exercise-and-living-longer

sn9 3y ago
Grip strength is a proxy for whole body strength. Training grip strength for health benefits instead of engaging in strength training is like turning a dashboard green instead of fixing the underlying issues.
- aws_ls 3y ago
  Yes, Peter Attia says this precise thing in his book 'Outlive' and also his podcasts. I stopped using the gripper after that. I started lifting weights 1 year and 2 months back - whole body compound lifts i.e. deadlift, squats, bench press, overhead press - and results are phenomenal. Before that had been doing body weight for a decade push ups/ pull ups/ planks, and for some reason thought it was sufficient for me. Only when I pivoted to these (lifting weights) after a chronic pain developed due to excessive running, did I feel the difference. Overall lifting weights and counting protein intake seems to be life changing. The chronic pain also went away.
gnicholas 3y ago
Does just doing grip strength exercises cause people to live longer? Or is the correlation a result of the fact that activities that increase grip strength increase longevity (or are only able to be done by people who are very healthy)?
- fbdab103 3y ago
  Inclined to side with you. Prior to specialized gripping exercises, I would think the people with the strongest grips developed it from hard effort: lifting weights, rock climbing, trade work, etc.

librish 3y ago

Whenever you see discussions about longevity online there are a lot of people who come off as either die-hard enthusiasts or self-proclaimed gurus. They'll sink a lot of time, money, and effort into the field. Frequently though, whenever you see their profile picture, they are not fit. Why is that? Many of them clearly have the means, intelligence, and interest to know that a fit body is a great predictor of longevity and a good healthspan. Is it failure to execute on what they know they should do? Is there competing information steering them along a different path?

mechhacker 3y ago
A good counterpoint to show someone who did stay fit is Jack LaLanne.

jajko 3y ago

And the best weight by far to lift - your own weight. Our bodies are naturally designed to work with this weight (unless you are obese), our joints and connective tissue is literally built to match it. If given movement becomes too easy, just slow it down, add repetitions, modify slightly and voila - challenge is back. Sure, with weightlifting you strengthen everything including those joints, but only to certain amount, and road there is full of booby traps in form of variously crippling injuries. Look at powerlifters, how much joint protection they need just to perform, and look how they look retired (if they are actually still around, most have massive weight issues). People who consistently want to look like Arnold and actually execute it have often some deep childhood issues they are compensating with working out insanely (and taking various chemical crap that bites back later to stay on top). Being lean, have decent power and endless stamina is literal heaven for everything you ever wanted to do - work, longevity, sex, confidence, happiness, women love it. Supplement it with moderate weights, for sure, even include them in workouts (ie in nature hiking with heavy backpacks with camping/climbing gear is amazing). Or weighted squats in very good form. But only once you built a very solid base in joints and connective tissue with easier stuff repeated a lot, for some time. Patience as with everything else is the key to long term performance. And discussed longevity requires decades of consistent efforts. Or do it like my grandparents, both lived till 95 - have a decent garden with various fruits and vegetables, take proper care of it daily. Just find something to do in winters too (ie ski touring). And no vices ala alcohol nor cigarettes.

no_wizard 3y ago
Any advice on this that makes it not so boring? Push ups, squats etc. I find so mentally unstimulating it feels like torture to my brain. Podcasts audiobooks etc only help so much. On the elliptical I can watch documentaries which makes it tolerable to enjoyable depending on my mood so I stick to the elliptical but I know I need resistance training (re: weight training) but I hate the boredom
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
  I'm on the same boat, I tried every trick and it doesn't work. The two things that do help is whem I got to my maximum, lifting the weight was really hard, so I don't have too much leeway to think about anything else beside the movement or I'll injure myself. I ended up preferring music i already listened to many times just to cover the noise i don't listen to it. The really boring part are the 90s breaks in between. I read a book during that time, at least I look forward something in between the reps. Finally, going 6 times a week (3 cardio and 3 strength) has been the biggest help. With 4 I will say "i'm tired, I'll do it tomorrow". With 6 I say "tomorrow I have to do two sessions in one day if I don't go", so I don't want to skip. Combine that with the new mindset of "it's weird not going to the gym today" because I go so often, it's been really helpful. I also minimize the time spent in the gym: 1 hour for the strength training (30 minutes are spent resting, haven't found a way to speed that up), and 30 minutes HIIT training for cardio. Cardio is so short that doesn't bother me anymore and it's so intense that I don't have much time to feel bored.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bjornsing 3y ago

It’s worth remembering here that correlation is not causation. An alternative explanation is (simply) that healthy people have stronger muscles, and are also less likely to die in the coming decade.

efilife 3y ago

I don't see the point of delaying it

ramijames 3y ago

How do I speed death up? How about an article on that?

mmh0000 3y ago
How fast do you want it? Speed: A firearm is hard to beat, but it leaves a bit of a mess for whoever finds you. An Exit Bag[1] is another option, though, you really got to have the willpower to follow through. Slow: Alcohol, tobacco, STDs, Meth, Fent, you know... All the fun stuff! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bag
timbit42 3y ago
Do you mean causing it to happen earlier or to cause it to happen faster after it begins?
- ramijames 3y ago
  Yes

dghughes 3y ago

Of the recent deaths of my friends and family (a middle age thing) 90% of them were due to a heart attack no matter what other problems they had. Some seemingly had no health issues other than old age. Of the people I know of who live well mid and old age all are active daily. I've gone from an active job to a sedentary office job so I am in mortal danger. I'm in the worst shape of my life at an age when that is very bad. Motivation is zero. I had gone to the gym for 20 years but for social and work reasons I an anxious to go back. I just do some light biking (20km to 30km x 2 or 3 days/wk) in the summer. Even my Dad with terrible lung capacity was active; hockey games, light home repairs, fishing, grocery shopping, visiting family and friends. Even with his oxygen generator that barely got him there in the end. When he lost his mobility it was a quick downturn and he died only about six months later. Be active daily at all costs.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

helph67 3y ago

I suggest that the older we get the more we NEED turkey and soy! https://scienmag.com/major-research-initiative-explores-how-our-bones-and-muscles-age-new-ways-to-block-their-decline/ https://scienmag.com/major-research-initiative-explores-how-...