7 ms·

Seems like a sign that taxes are too low.

alchemist1e9 3y ago
According to my computations the total income tax on entrepreneurs is over 50% in most places in the US. Is that really too low?
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  The ultra-rich avoid it entirely. https://www.propublica.org/article/lord-of-the-roths-how-tech-mogul-peter-thiel-turned-a-retirement-account-for-the-middle-class-into-a-5-billion-dollar-tax-free-piggy-bank https://www.propublica.org/article/lord-of-the-roths-how-tec... > Over the last 20 years, Thiel has quietly turned his Roth IRA — a humdrum retirement vehicle intended to spur Americans to save for their golden years — into a gargantuan tax-exempt piggy bank, confidential Internal Revenue Service data shows. Using stock deals unavailable to most people, Thiel has taken a retirement account worth less than $2,000 in 1999 and spun it into a $5 billion windfall.
- ofrzeta 3y ago
  On paper. As far as I know there are a myriad of ways to circumvent paying taxes. "In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes." between 2014 and 2018, Bezos paid $972 million in total taxes on $4.22 billion of income. https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trov...
  - alchemist1e9 3y ago
    > On paper. As far as I know there are a myriad of ways to circumvent paying taxes. Please let me know then! 37% top income tax bracket + 15.3% self employment social security and medicare is 52.3% right there! and we aren’t included state or local or other taxes and fees involved in running a business. It seems people get confused about capital gains taxes vs income taxes. That $927/4220 is almost certainly capital gains taxes.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      > It seems people get confused about capital gains taxes vs income taxes. Among them, you! The people in this article aren’t buying them out of paychecks. Capital gains rates are their worst case scenario. They’re paying next to nothing into Social Security (remember, only the first $160k income gets taxed there) and they aren’t paying into Medicare (Jobs’ famous $1 salary would result in about a penny).
      - alchemist1e9 3y ago
        > Among them, you! The people in this article aren’t buying them out of paychecks. Capital gains rates are their worst case scenario. I know that however unless they are selling assets they will still need to pass through as income. The idea that capital gains taxes are low is also insane. Those are assets that are being sold. Yes they may have started as worth zero when the company was formed but when they sell stock someone else now owns it. The fact we accept the government is entitled to 15% of that asset value increase is frankly insane. I’d also like to mention that most people on paychecks are not aware of how much they are being taxed as they believe the absurd euphemistically named “employer” taxes aren’t a tax on them directly. Any tax the employer wouldn’t pay if they weren’t employed is a tax on them, regardless of how you name and collect it. Without payroll collection of taxes there is no way the government would politically get away with the extreme high tax rates on the general populations of western governments.
        gaadd33 3y ago
        Why sell assets when you can get a loan against them and the appreciation covers the interest cost? Then you have no taxes to pay and plenty of money to spend.
        alchemist1e9 3y ago
        I don’t get it, eventually you have to pay back the loan and pay the capital gains tax, so what? People do what you suggest and there isn’t anything wrong with it, they still pay same taxes eventually.
Tiktaalik 3y ago
lol minus points already. Sad to think there's so many deluded wanna be bunker owners out there. It's not gonna happen folks.
- drewcoo 3y ago
  "Temporarily embarrassed" bunker owners, thank you very much.
- Ekaros 3y ago
  I believe a civil war might be a real risk. Or big recession, both which might lead to unrest.. Never know what is the next political system when people are actually starving.
  - theGnuMe 3y ago
    I believe russian disinformation.
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      dont forget Chinese and NK and Iranian. And the Chinese do a way, wayyyy better job.
  - bookofjoe 3y ago
    "Civil War" — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDyQxtg0V2w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDyQxtg0V2w
  - Tiktaalik 3y ago
    oh I meant people thinking they might one day have enough money to build a bunker lol.

According to my computations the total income tax on entrepreneurs is over 50% in most places in the US. Is that really too low?

ceejayoz 3y ago
The ultra-rich avoid it entirely. https://www.propublica.org/article/lord-of-the-roths-how-tech-mogul-peter-thiel-turned-a-retirement-account-for-the-middle-class-into-a-5-billion-dollar-tax-free-piggy-bank https://www.propublica.org/article/lord-of-the-roths-how-tec... > Over the last 20 years, Thiel has quietly turned his Roth IRA — a humdrum retirement vehicle intended to spur Americans to save for their golden years — into a gargantuan tax-exempt piggy bank, confidential Internal Revenue Service data shows. Using stock deals unavailable to most people, Thiel has taken a retirement account worth less than $2,000 in 1999 and spun it into a $5 billion windfall.
ofrzeta 3y ago
On paper. As far as I know there are a myriad of ways to circumvent paying taxes. "In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes." between 2014 and 2018, Bezos paid $972 million in total taxes on $4.22 billion of income. https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trov...
- alchemist1e9 3y ago
  > On paper. As far as I know there are a myriad of ways to circumvent paying taxes. Please let me know then! 37% top income tax bracket + 15.3% self employment social security and medicare is 52.3% right there! and we aren’t included state or local or other taxes and fees involved in running a business. It seems people get confused about capital gains taxes vs income taxes. That $927/4220 is almost certainly capital gains taxes.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    > It seems people get confused about capital gains taxes vs income taxes. Among them, you! The people in this article aren’t buying them out of paychecks. Capital gains rates are their worst case scenario. They’re paying next to nothing into Social Security (remember, only the first $160k income gets taxed there) and they aren’t paying into Medicare (Jobs’ famous $1 salary would result in about a penny).
    - alchemist1e9 3y ago
      > Among them, you! The people in this article aren’t buying them out of paychecks. Capital gains rates are their worst case scenario. I know that however unless they are selling assets they will still need to pass through as income. The idea that capital gains taxes are low is also insane. Those are assets that are being sold. Yes they may have started as worth zero when the company was formed but when they sell stock someone else now owns it. The fact we accept the government is entitled to 15% of that asset value increase is frankly insane. I’d also like to mention that most people on paychecks are not aware of how much they are being taxed as they believe the absurd euphemistically named “employer” taxes aren’t a tax on them directly. Any tax the employer wouldn’t pay if they weren’t employed is a tax on them, regardless of how you name and collect it. Without payroll collection of taxes there is no way the government would politically get away with the extreme high tax rates on the general populations of western governments.
      - gaadd33 3y ago
        Why sell assets when you can get a loan against them and the appreciation covers the interest cost? Then you have no taxes to pay and plenty of money to spend.
        alchemist1e9 3y ago
        I don’t get it, eventually you have to pay back the loan and pay the capital gains tax, so what? People do what you suggest and there isn’t anything wrong with it, they still pay same taxes eventually.

Tiktaalik 3y ago

lol minus points already. Sad to think there's so many deluded wanna be bunker owners out there. It's not gonna happen folks.

drewcoo 3y ago
"Temporarily embarrassed" bunker owners, thank you very much.
Ekaros 3y ago
I believe a civil war might be a real risk. Or big recession, both which might lead to unrest.. Never know what is the next political system when people are actually starving.
- theGnuMe 3y ago
  I believe russian disinformation.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    dont forget Chinese and NK and Iranian. And the Chinese do a way, wayyyy better job.
- bookofjoe 3y ago
  "Civil War" — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDyQxtg0V2w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDyQxtg0V2w
- Tiktaalik 3y ago
  oh I meant people thinking they might one day have enough money to build a bunker lol.