5 ms·

Why? I assume your intentions are positive, but you aren't helping anyone--you're harming people. Prisons in the U.S. are not rehabilitative: prisons are activ

Why? I assume your intentions are positive, but you aren't helping anyone--you're harming people. Prisons in the U.S. are not rehabilitative: prisons are actively more harmful than unregulated drug use. They do absolutely nothing prevent drug use. However, they DO cause increases in violence including both violent crime and violence perpetrated by law enforcement. They also result in more single-parent children. If you want to reduce the problems of drug addiction, the BEST thing you can do is donate to lobbying for legalization. We certainly need more research and funding for rehabilitation, but these things won't help if we don't put into action what we already know: prohibition doesn't work.

lm28469 3y ago
Many countries with stricter laws don't have anywhere near the problem the US is facing
- catlifeonmars 3y ago
  Same with countries that have more relaxed laws. I think the problem lies deeper than legality and enforcement.
- kerkeslager 3y ago
  All countries with complete legalization don't have anywhere near the problem the U.S. is facing. Glib responses about nuanced situations actively detract from the conversation. Stop doing that.
whamlastxmas 3y ago
People with Karen-like behavior are rarely doing it for altruistic reasons and rather out of some sense of anger and spite
epiccoleman 3y ago
The legalization lobby is going to have to really get their shit together if we're going to arrive at a sensible and humane drug policy in this country. I'm generally in favor of legalization, but the latest approaches we've seen in the states where full decriminalization has happened have had some seriously awful effects - videos of open air drug markets in Philly and San Francisco showcase a level of human misery that almost makes prison look humane. To me, it seems obvious that there's a middle ground between the stupidity of the "drug war" and the suffering factories we're allowing to grow in some of our cities. There's got to be a way to thread the needle and not have legalization imply mass lawlessness in certain parts of our cities. But none of the places that have tried legalization on a big scale have successfully threaded that needle as far as I can tell, and I think the effect of that is going to entail a lot more skepticism from the general population when further legalization initiatives come to a vote.
- catlifeonmars 3y ago
  Honest question: has opioid drug use significantly proliferated because of open air drug markets in SF and Philly, or is it just surfacing a market that already existed? And what about the health outcomes of drug users? Have they improved or gotten worse?
  - CPLX 3y ago
    Not sure this argument is as powerful as you think it is. Is the frequent shitting in the streets actually the result of more human shit being created, or is it just surfacing a quantity of feces that already existed but was being routed into bathrooms or other private areas?
    - catlifeonmars 3y ago
      Not making any particular argument. However, I don’t find this particularly convincing: > Is the frequent shitting in the streets actually the result of more human shit being created, or is it just surfacing a quantity of feces that already existed but was being routed into bathrooms or other private areas? In this hypothetical shituation (I’m very sorry - I couldn’t resist), it would be very useful to answer that research question as it would serve to reveal more about both the problem and the solution.
      - CPLX 3y ago
        Yeah I don’t think so. The point of the comment is to point out that putting human misery into people’s faces isn’t a value-neutral decision. I don’t want to see trauma surgery or graphic sex on the way to the park with my kids either, though I am of course fine with both existing in the world.
        kerkeslager 3y ago
        > The point of the comment is to point out that putting human misery into people’s faces isn’t a value-neutral decision. That would be an arguable point, but you certainly didn't make that with your shit analogy. If you'd care to provide any evidence for that point whatsoever, I'd be happy to address that evidence, but you haven't provided any evidence for that point to even argue against. The shit analogy isn't evidence because the problems of putting shit in the streets aren't cause by its visibility, they're caused (mostly) by bacteria. > I don’t want to see trauma surgery or graphic sex on the way to the park with my kids either, though I am of course fine with both existing in the world. Again with the argument from analogy being fallacious. You likely won't see open air drug markets on the way to the park with your kids unless you already lived in a neighborhood where your children were already going to be exposed to drug use. These open air drug markets aren't opening in the Hamptons, they're opening in areas where the drug crisis was already pervasive.
gogasca 3y ago
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lm28469 3y ago

Many countries with stricter laws don't have anywhere near the problem the US is facing

catlifeonmars 3y ago
Same with countries that have more relaxed laws. I think the problem lies deeper than legality and enforcement.
kerkeslager 3y ago
All countries with complete legalization don't have anywhere near the problem the U.S. is facing. Glib responses about nuanced situations actively detract from the conversation. Stop doing that.

whamlastxmas 3y ago

People with Karen-like behavior are rarely doing it for altruistic reasons and rather out of some sense of anger and spite

epiccoleman 3y ago

The legalization lobby is going to have to really get their shit together if we're going to arrive at a sensible and humane drug policy in this country. I'm generally in favor of legalization, but the latest approaches we've seen in the states where full decriminalization has happened have had some seriously awful effects - videos of open air drug markets in Philly and San Francisco showcase a level of human misery that almost makes prison look humane. To me, it seems obvious that there's a middle ground between the stupidity of the "drug war" and the suffering factories we're allowing to grow in some of our cities. There's got to be a way to thread the needle and not have legalization imply mass lawlessness in certain parts of our cities. But none of the places that have tried legalization on a big scale have successfully threaded that needle as far as I can tell, and I think the effect of that is going to entail a lot more skepticism from the general population when further legalization initiatives come to a vote.

catlifeonmars 3y ago
Honest question: has opioid drug use significantly proliferated because of open air drug markets in SF and Philly, or is it just surfacing a market that already existed? And what about the health outcomes of drug users? Have they improved or gotten worse?
- CPLX 3y ago
  Not sure this argument is as powerful as you think it is. Is the frequent shitting in the streets actually the result of more human shit being created, or is it just surfacing a quantity of feces that already existed but was being routed into bathrooms or other private areas?
  - catlifeonmars 3y ago
    Not making any particular argument. However, I don’t find this particularly convincing: > Is the frequent shitting in the streets actually the result of more human shit being created, or is it just surfacing a quantity of feces that already existed but was being routed into bathrooms or other private areas? In this hypothetical shituation (I’m very sorry - I couldn’t resist), it would be very useful to answer that research question as it would serve to reveal more about both the problem and the solution.
    - CPLX 3y ago
      Yeah I don’t think so. The point of the comment is to point out that putting human misery into people’s faces isn’t a value-neutral decision. I don’t want to see trauma surgery or graphic sex on the way to the park with my kids either, though I am of course fine with both existing in the world.
      - kerkeslager 3y ago
        > The point of the comment is to point out that putting human misery into people’s faces isn’t a value-neutral decision. That would be an arguable point, but you certainly didn't make that with your shit analogy. If you'd care to provide any evidence for that point whatsoever, I'd be happy to address that evidence, but you haven't provided any evidence for that point to even argue against. The shit analogy isn't evidence because the problems of putting shit in the streets aren't cause by its visibility, they're caused (mostly) by bacteria. > I don’t want to see trauma surgery or graphic sex on the way to the park with my kids either, though I am of course fine with both existing in the world. Again with the argument from analogy being fallacious. You likely won't see open air drug markets on the way to the park with your kids unless you already lived in a neighborhood where your children were already going to be exposed to drug use. These open air drug markets aren't opening in the Hamptons, they're opening in areas where the drug crisis was already pervasive.

gogasca 3y ago

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