5 ms·

The memristor—the functional equivalent of a synapse—could revolutionize circuit design

64 points by prakash 18y ago

albertcardona 18y ago
Perhaps, but the claims regarding brain emulation and "thinking" are way off. To begin with, we don't even know the biological basis of thinking--neurons firing is something even a slug can do, and has as much to do with thinking as walls and doors have to do with a research institute. It's like saying: since we understand gravity now, designing spaceships with warp drive is just round the corner.
- gruseom 18y ago
  Yes, the brain analogy is grandiose fluff, which is a pity because the content is mind-blowing enough without it. If the discovery is as fundamental as the article implies, there's no telling what will be made of it.
- davi 18y ago
  Yes, calling something "the functional equivalent of the synapse" implies you know the function of a synapse... The memristor has some functional properties in common with some synapses. Neither synapses nor memristors have been fully characterized (though probably the memristor is better understood at this point). The function of synapses in memory formation and information processing is poorly understood, but maybe having a nanoscale electronics component (memristor) that has some synapse-like attributes will increase the size of simulations to the degree that they will make interesting, testable predictions about how neural circuits work.
mhb 18y ago
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=388562 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=388562 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=385322 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=385322
- davi 18y ago
  http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=362005 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=362005
davi 18y ago
Early in the article: "[Chua] proved that memristor behavior could not be duplicated by any circuit built using only the other three elements, which is why the memristor is truly fundamental." Later in the article: "Emulating the behavior of a single memristor, Chua showed, requires a circuit with at least 15 transistors and other passive elements." Reconciliation?
- likpok 18y ago
  The three elements are the capacitor, inductor and resistor. I think when they say "fundamental elements" they mean the fundamental passive elements of analog circuit theory (mentioned above), as opposed to active elements like op-amps or transistors.
  - tedshroyer 18y ago
    Exactly, it says that at the top of the paragraph. "For nearly 150 years, the known fundamental passive circuit elements were limited to the capacitor (discovered in 1745), the resistor (1827), and the inductor (1831)... He proved that memristor behavior could not be duplicated by any circuit built using only the other three elements, which is why the memristor is truly fundamental. "
    - davi 18y ago
      Thanks, think I got it -- the passive elements can't duplicate a memristor, but transistors plus some passive elements can.
      - michaelneale 18y ago
        ok so the reverse is interesting - the memristor can presumably do what those "active + passive" components could have, but cheaper/smaller/faster better etc? Did I get it right?
        likpok 18y ago
jderick 18y ago
Fascinating article. It really gives a great feel for how real breakthroughs are made. And it shows what kind of environment is necessary: But beyond the comment that “molecular-scale electronics” would be interesting and that we should try to have something useful in about 10 years, I was given carte blanche to pursue any topic we wanted. We decided to take on Moore’s Law. There aren't many places today where that kind of research is going on. Maybe successes like this will remind some of those in a position to make a difference what kind of commitment is required to discover truly revolutionary ideas.
- nihilocrat 18y ago
  You see the same sort of environment revealed in the "good old days at Bell Labs" that was posted a few days ago.
hualibaobao 18y ago
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coliveira 18y ago
This is a fantastic example of exposition. I don't know anything about nanotechnology, but the author made it easy to follow the explanation.

64 points by prakash 18y ago

Perhaps, but the claims regarding brain emulation and "thinking" are way off. To begin with, we don't even know the biological basis of thinking--neurons firing is something even a slug can do, and has as much to do with thinking as walls and doors have to do with a research institute. It's like saying: since we understand gravity now, designing spaceships with warp drive is just round the corner.

gruseom 18y ago
Yes, the brain analogy is grandiose fluff, which is a pity because the content is mind-blowing enough without it. If the discovery is as fundamental as the article implies, there's no telling what will be made of it.
davi 18y ago
Yes, calling something "the functional equivalent of the synapse" implies you know the function of a synapse... The memristor has some functional properties in common with some synapses. Neither synapses nor memristors have been fully characterized (though probably the memristor is better understood at this point). The function of synapses in memory formation and information processing is poorly understood, but maybe having a nanoscale electronics component (memristor) that has some synapse-like attributes will increase the size of simulations to the degree that they will make interesting, testable predictions about how neural circuits work.

mhb 18y ago

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=388562 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=388562 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=385322 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=385322

davi 18y ago
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=362005 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=362005

davi 18y ago

Early in the article: "[Chua] proved that memristor behavior could not be duplicated by any circuit built using only the other three elements, which is why the memristor is truly fundamental." Later in the article: "Emulating the behavior of a single memristor, Chua showed, requires a circuit with at least 15 transistors and other passive elements." Reconciliation?

likpok 18y ago
The three elements are the capacitor, inductor and resistor. I think when they say "fundamental elements" they mean the fundamental passive elements of analog circuit theory (mentioned above), as opposed to active elements like op-amps or transistors.
- tedshroyer 18y ago
  Exactly, it says that at the top of the paragraph. "For nearly 150 years, the known fundamental passive circuit elements were limited to the capacitor (discovered in 1745), the resistor (1827), and the inductor (1831)... He proved that memristor behavior could not be duplicated by any circuit built using only the other three elements, which is why the memristor is truly fundamental. "
  - davi 18y ago
    Thanks, think I got it -- the passive elements can't duplicate a memristor, but transistors plus some passive elements can.
    - michaelneale 18y ago
      ok so the reverse is interesting - the memristor can presumably do what those "active + passive" components could have, but cheaper/smaller/faster better etc? Did I get it right?
      - likpok 18y ago

jderick 18y ago

Fascinating article. It really gives a great feel for how real breakthroughs are made. And it shows what kind of environment is necessary: But beyond the comment that “molecular-scale electronics” would be interesting and that we should try to have something useful in about 10 years, I was given carte blanche to pursue any topic we wanted. We decided to take on Moore’s Law. There aren't many places today where that kind of research is going on. Maybe successes like this will remind some of those in a position to make a difference what kind of commitment is required to discover truly revolutionary ideas.

nihilocrat 18y ago
You see the same sort of environment revealed in the "good old days at Bell Labs" that was posted a few days ago.

hualibaobao 18y ago

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coliveira 18y ago

This is a fantastic example of exposition. I don't know anything about nanotechnology, but the author made it easy to follow the explanation.