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The need for stronger legislation is overdue by now. There is already a Foss mobile OS, it's called Android, or more specifically a distribution of it like Lin

The need for stronger legislation is overdue by now. There is already a Foss mobile OS, it's called Android, or more specifically a distribution of it like LineageOS. But installing it is so difficult that only 1% of people have the technical know how to even attempt it, and it's getting more difficult as manufacturers introduce more and more hurdles in this process. Which is all irrelevant anyway because the vast majority of people done even realise that everything they see, do, or type on their phones is reported to hundreds of companies, processed, and te-sold to thousands of companies all over the world. We need regulation, full stop.

rightbyte 3y ago
Ye that is true. As I see it the problem is with the phone manufacturers, only supporting Google. Also, there is this problem with banks requiring signed OS:es for their silly app "security".
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bornfreddy 3y ago
  There should be regulation that requires bank to offer a dedicated hardware OTP solution. Mobile apps security (banking or not) is abysmal anyway.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    Ye it is strange that they abandon the simple, safe, cheap and idiot proof key device and go for some convoluted 2FA app that is run on the same device anyways.
throwaway11460 3y ago
It's regulation that forces people into Google and Apple ecosystems. Due to the payment security regulation I'm no longer able to use Android phone without Google services. SMS authentication is gone and I must have a bank app that must be installed from Google Play and uses Google services, also it detects root and stops working. Also, my bank used to have an app that completely bypassed Google Pay and worked even offline, like a card would - also canceled by the regulation.
- sham1 3y ago
  The issue here isn't that there is regulation, it's that the regulation is badly written. For essential services such as banking and government stuff, you shouldn't be forced to rely on things like the Google Play Store and Apple stuff. This kind of stuff should work even on a debloated, degoogled phone. And the regulation must be improved, not thrown away. Politicians of course have hard time with technology, so of course the regulation will be terrible for users, especially given the Big Tech lobbying, but still. We should do better.
  - throwaway11460 3y ago
    I'm a citizen of a small EU country that has voting power in the EU parliament near zero percent. They should do better, indeed, but what can I do. Much bigger fishes (even the banks) tried to convince the EU this is bad, it probably didn't even register on their radar. From my perspective, the regulation will always be bad, I can't do anything about it however hard I try, and so it shouldn't exist at all.
    - account42 3y ago
      > I'm a citizen of a small EU country that has voting power in the EU parliament near zero percent. They should do better, indeed, but what can I do. You can bring this to the attention of other EU citizens so that they too badger their representatives about this. It's not like any individuals vote in a larger EU country is worth more than yours.
      - throwaway11460 3y ago
        But a sentence said in German or French goes much farther than in Slovenian or Croatian.
- Nullabillity 3y ago
  Blocking root is definitely not an EU thing. BankID runs just fine on my Magisked phone, the only payment app I've had issues with was Google Pay.
bornfreddy 3y ago
> ...like LineageOS. But installing it is so difficult that only 1% of people have the technical know how to even attempt it... Aside: there is also /e/OS (or MurenaOS - their naming is inconsistent). It is basically LineageOS that someone else installs for you so you get everything in a package [0]. They sell many phones, but it also runs nicely on Fairphones if you want a phone that you can repair (there is of course a compromise in price / performance there - depends on what matters to you the most). Not affiliated, just a happy customer. [0] https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/
- theandrewbailey 3y ago
  > It is basically LineageOS that someone else installs for you so you get everything in a package [0]. From what I read, Murena has a Google Play services reimplementation that isn't compatible with Lineage. Is that still the case?
  - gitaarik 3y ago
    What do you mean incompatible with LineageOS? In LineageOS you have to choice to install Google services like Google Play, or use the Aurora store. In /e/os/ they have their own app store, App Lounge, with which you can install apps from Google Play through the Google Play API, similar to how the Aurora store does it. And you can also find open-source and PWA apps in it. More info: https://doc.e.foundation/support-topics/app_lounge https://doc.e.foundation/support-topics/app_lounge
  - bornfreddy 3y ago
    No idea about that, never heard anything similar. I use fdroid and aurora store for installing apps, and push notifications work nicely using microg. Of course microg needs to connect to G servers (no way around it), but at least it works and there is no G app running on the phone.

rightbyte 3y ago

Ye that is true. As I see it the problem is with the phone manufacturers, only supporting Google. Also, there is this problem with banks requiring signed OS:es for their silly app "security".

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bornfreddy 3y ago
There should be regulation that requires bank to offer a dedicated hardware OTP solution. Mobile apps security (banking or not) is abysmal anyway.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  Ye it is strange that they abandon the simple, safe, cheap and idiot proof key device and go for some convoluted 2FA app that is run on the same device anyways.

throwaway11460 3y ago

It's regulation that forces people into Google and Apple ecosystems. Due to the payment security regulation I'm no longer able to use Android phone without Google services. SMS authentication is gone and I must have a bank app that must be installed from Google Play and uses Google services, also it detects root and stops working. Also, my bank used to have an app that completely bypassed Google Pay and worked even offline, like a card would - also canceled by the regulation.

sham1 3y ago
The issue here isn't that there is regulation, it's that the regulation is badly written. For essential services such as banking and government stuff, you shouldn't be forced to rely on things like the Google Play Store and Apple stuff. This kind of stuff should work even on a debloated, degoogled phone. And the regulation must be improved, not thrown away. Politicians of course have hard time with technology, so of course the regulation will be terrible for users, especially given the Big Tech lobbying, but still. We should do better.
- throwaway11460 3y ago
  I'm a citizen of a small EU country that has voting power in the EU parliament near zero percent. They should do better, indeed, but what can I do. Much bigger fishes (even the banks) tried to convince the EU this is bad, it probably didn't even register on their radar. From my perspective, the regulation will always be bad, I can't do anything about it however hard I try, and so it shouldn't exist at all.
  - account42 3y ago
    > I'm a citizen of a small EU country that has voting power in the EU parliament near zero percent. They should do better, indeed, but what can I do. You can bring this to the attention of other EU citizens so that they too badger their representatives about this. It's not like any individuals vote in a larger EU country is worth more than yours.
    - throwaway11460 3y ago
      But a sentence said in German or French goes much farther than in Slovenian or Croatian.
Nullabillity 3y ago
Blocking root is definitely not an EU thing. BankID runs just fine on my Magisked phone, the only payment app I've had issues with was Google Pay.

bornfreddy 3y ago

> ...like LineageOS. But installing it is so difficult that only 1% of people have the technical know how to even attempt it... Aside: there is also /e/OS (or MurenaOS - their naming is inconsistent). It is basically LineageOS that someone else installs for you so you get everything in a package [0]. They sell many phones, but it also runs nicely on Fairphones if you want a phone that you can repair (there is of course a compromise in price / performance there - depends on what matters to you the most). Not affiliated, just a happy customer. [0] https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/

theandrewbailey 3y ago
> It is basically LineageOS that someone else installs for you so you get everything in a package [0]. From what I read, Murena has a Google Play services reimplementation that isn't compatible with Lineage. Is that still the case?
- gitaarik 3y ago
  What do you mean incompatible with LineageOS? In LineageOS you have to choice to install Google services like Google Play, or use the Aurora store. In /e/os/ they have their own app store, App Lounge, with which you can install apps from Google Play through the Google Play API, similar to how the Aurora store does it. And you can also find open-source and PWA apps in it. More info: https://doc.e.foundation/support-topics/app_lounge https://doc.e.foundation/support-topics/app_lounge
- bornfreddy 3y ago
  No idea about that, never heard anything similar. I use fdroid and aurora store for installing apps, and push notifications work nicely using microg. Of course microg needs to connect to G servers (no way around it), but at least it works and there is no G app running on the phone.