4 ms·

What the Gardasil Testing May Have Missed (2017)

22 points by hammock 3y ago

Jtsummers 3y ago
https://archive.is/G16av https://archive.is/G16av
blindriver 3y ago
HPV vaccine is exactly the type of vaccines that made me extremely skeptical of big pharma, well before the pandemic. For the record, both my kids are fully vaccinated with every non-optional vaccine, including the first shots of COVID vaccine. I now regret getting the COVID vaccine for them and feel very guilty about it. When my children were infants, the doctors and nurses were pushing this HPV vaccine, saying it was safe. I questioned why infants should get vaccinated for a sexually transmitted virus including boys who can't get cervical cancer, and the response was that it was the moral thing to do. It sounded like nonsense to me, and I said if they get the vaccine, it will be after they enter puberty. After a bit more investigation, it turned out that the chances of my daughter developing any type of problem from HPV infection was exceedingly low, and the chance of getting cervical cancer was even lower than that. So the idea that EVERY SINGLE CHILD in the US should get HPV vaccine smelled like big pharma trying to make billions by getting it added to the vaccine schedule. Big pharma greed plus the laws protecting them from any lawsuits makes vaccines the perfect breeding ground for useless but potentially harmful vaccines pushed on hundreds of millions of people. The COVID vaccine post Omicron is another perfect example of this. This article just foments my opposition to anything new because big pharma is fundamentally untrustworthy and big pharma greed has done a huge disservice to the world because people are less and less apt to trust any new medications now.
- irq 3y ago
  > I now regret getting the COVID vaccine for them and feel very guilty about it. What do you regret exactly? Or feel guilty about? What negative outcome befell you or your kids?
  - blindriver 3y ago
    Both my kids (and the entire family) got COVID before the kids' vaccine was available late 2021. I really didn't think that it was necessary for my kids to get the vaccine given the fact they already had been infected, but the school at the time insisted. I was getting ready to join some other parents to try to fight it but then decided to listen to my wife and just go with the flow. Now given everything we know, the COVID vaccine truly was unnecessary. I crumpled to peer pressure and got my kids injected with a drug that was completely unnecessary, even though I knew scientifically what was being said made absolutely no sense at all. I think like many other parents who felt lied to, the next time big pharm tries to convince me that my kids or I need some sort of medication, I will react much much more skeptically and stick to my guns unless it actually passes my smell test fully.
    - monkeydreams 3y ago
      The COVID vaccine showed a positive impact in terms of disease severity and long term impacts. Patients who experience long-term COVID impacts often demonstrate a range of major problems including lowered IQ, brain fog, increased risk of ischemic events, etc. In my opinion you were absolutely correct to vaccinate your children, just as parents of boys should vaccinate them against HPV; not only for their safety, but for the safety of their partners.
      - blindriver 3y ago
        > The COVID vaccine showed a positive impact in terms of disease severity and long term impacts. We are talking about the children's vaccine. The COVID vaccine showed no efficacy for children, on top of the already practically-nil symptoms that COVID itself had on children.
        irq 3y ago
        > The COVID vaccine showed no efficacy for children This is false. Please don’t spread misinformation here. Finally, please consider the possibility that your reasoning skills are not sufficient for the conclusions you’re making.
- d6e 3y ago
  HPV causes oral cancer in boys which is why they give it to boys.
  - _mlbt 3y ago
    Also boys can infect girls with HPV. Oh and in rare cases HPV can cause penile cancer.
- cperciva 3y ago
  including boys who can't get cervical cancer True enough (modulo questions of how trans people are identified) but while HPV is best known for causing cervical cancer, it also causes cancers of the penis, anus, mouth, and throat.
  - f731d3a6-1e22 3y ago
    > but while the HPV is best known for causing cervical cancer, it also causes cancers of the penis, anus, mouth, and throat. or > but while the HPV vaccine is best known for preventing cervical cancer, it also prevents cancers of the penis, anus, mouth, and throat. FTFY
    - cperciva 3y ago
      I wrote what I did deliberately; I wasn't sure if any trials had tested the other cancers (although it would be incredibly surprising if they weren't similarly prevented).
      - f731d3a6-1e22 3y ago
        Makes sense Still you wrote "HPV vaccine is best known for causing", thats what I wanted to fix
        cperciva 3y ago
        Whoops! Thanks, I fixed that.
- massover 3y ago
  One reason (besides moral) that a boy may want to get vaccinated against HPV is that HPV is linked to anal cancer. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/anal-cancer https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas... I know people that if they were vaccinated against HPV like I am, they wouldn’t have needed anal cancer treatment. It seems worth it to me.
  - blindriver 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stats.htm https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stats.htm > HPV is so common that nearly all sexually active men and women get the virus at some point in their lives.
    - Zak 3y ago
      The CDC says: "HPV is so common that nearly all sexually active men and women get the virus at some point in their lives." https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stats.htm https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stats.htm
- evantbyrne 3y ago
  At this point COVID mRNA vaccine fear mongering is just shameful. So many excess deaths in America in unvaccinated populations. I haven't looked at the data recently, but vividly recall mortality rates hovering around 10:1 during peak times.
  - fuckyah 3y ago
    [dead]
  - blindriver 3y ago
    By the time omicron became the prevalent variant, which is the time when the children’s vaccine became available, the notion of excess deaths for unvaccinated had vanished. In terms of children specifically, overall the number of children who died from Covid was extremely small and almost all died because of underlying conditions not from Covid.
    - evantbyrne 3y ago
      COVID mortality has always been correlated with age. Even so, excess deaths indicate that the official stats are an undercount. And vaccination mandates had broader positive effects beyond just child mortality. Children/teens don't typically die from the flu, but still benefit from flu shots. The people around them who would otherwise be infected also benefited from vaccination drives.
TheNightman 3y ago
I remember when I got my second dose of gardasil I blacked out in the waiting room after and woke up on the ground with rugburn on my face. I later learned I had fallen over and had what appeared to be a seizure. I didn’t even know what it was I was being vaccinated for at the time, I was pretty young. I was a little peeved when I found out that, as a male, I didn’t even need the vaccine. Needless to say I’ve been skeptical of vaccines and the pharmaceutical industry as a whole ever since.
- ipqk 3y ago
  The vaccine protects men against a variety of cancers as well as genital warts.
- iamtheworstdev 3y ago
  the vaccine is still beneficial to men.
fuckyah 3y ago
[dead]
bnprks 3y ago
I'm sorry about negative experiences and/or regrets other commenters might have about their vaccinations. Measuring the risk/reward profile of vaccines seems far from simple, particularly in cases like this where the large benefits (no cancer) and risks (autoimmune problems) may both be quite rare for any individual. It is too bad if the study didn't fully capture possible risks in this case, and hopefully follow-up studies and monitoring can help better describe the risk profile. It's worth noting the benefits of HPV vaccination do seem to be quite real, though. In the US, >20% of the female population has a high-risk HPV infection [1], and cervical cancer runs at ~12k new cases and ~4k deaths a year [2]. A follow-up study found women vaccinated before age 17 had about 88% reduction in cervical cancer, with around 53% for women vaccinated at 17-30 years of age [3] (presumably later-vaccinated women had a high chance of already having an HPV infection so the vaccine wouldn't be useful). I think potentially saving >3.5k lives and >10k cervical cancer cases annually in the US is a pretty good return if we can get widespread HPV vaccination, though of course we should also work hard to study and minimize vaccine side-effects. I'm similarly hopeful of news about EBV as a cause of multiple sclerosis [4], which is another situation where preventing a widespread infection might prevent rare but serious illnesses. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db280.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db280.htm [2] https://gis.cdc.gov/Cancer/USCS/#/Trends/1,2,73,1,3,value,23 https://gis.cdc.gov/Cancer/USCS/#/Trends/1,2,73,1,3,value,23 [3] https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2020/hpv-vaccine-prevents-cervical-cancer-sweden-study https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2020... [4] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/epstein-barr-virus-may-be-leading-cause-of-multiple-sclerosis/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/epstein-bar...
ipqk 3y ago
from 2017
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Slava_Propanei 3y ago
[dead]

22 points by hammock 3y ago

https://archive.is/G16av https://archive.is/G16av

HPV vaccine is exactly the type of vaccines that made me extremely skeptical of big pharma, well before the pandemic. For the record, both my kids are fully vaccinated with every non-optional vaccine, including the first shots of COVID vaccine. I now regret getting the COVID vaccine for them and feel very guilty about it. When my children were infants, the doctors and nurses were pushing this HPV vaccine, saying it was safe. I questioned why infants should get vaccinated for a sexually transmitted virus including boys who can't get cervical cancer, and the response was that it was the moral thing to do. It sounded like nonsense to me, and I said if they get the vaccine, it will be after they enter puberty. After a bit more investigation, it turned out that the chances of my daughter developing any type of problem from HPV infection was exceedingly low, and the chance of getting cervical cancer was even lower than that. So the idea that EVERY SINGLE CHILD in the US should get HPV vaccine smelled like big pharma trying to make billions by getting it added to the vaccine schedule. Big pharma greed plus the laws protecting them from any lawsuits makes vaccines the perfect breeding ground for useless but potentially harmful vaccines pushed on hundreds of millions of people. The COVID vaccine post Omicron is another perfect example of this. This article just foments my opposition to anything new because big pharma is fundamentally untrustworthy and big pharma greed has done a huge disservice to the world because people are less and less apt to trust any new medications now.

irq 3y ago
> I now regret getting the COVID vaccine for them and feel very guilty about it. What do you regret exactly? Or feel guilty about? What negative outcome befell you or your kids?
- blindriver 3y ago
  Both my kids (and the entire family) got COVID before the kids' vaccine was available late 2021. I really didn't think that it was necessary for my kids to get the vaccine given the fact they already had been infected, but the school at the time insisted. I was getting ready to join some other parents to try to fight it but then decided to listen to my wife and just go with the flow. Now given everything we know, the COVID vaccine truly was unnecessary. I crumpled to peer pressure and got my kids injected with a drug that was completely unnecessary, even though I knew scientifically what was being said made absolutely no sense at all. I think like many other parents who felt lied to, the next time big pharm tries to convince me that my kids or I need some sort of medication, I will react much much more skeptically and stick to my guns unless it actually passes my smell test fully.
  - monkeydreams 3y ago
    The COVID vaccine showed a positive impact in terms of disease severity and long term impacts. Patients who experience long-term COVID impacts often demonstrate a range of major problems including lowered IQ, brain fog, increased risk of ischemic events, etc. In my opinion you were absolutely correct to vaccinate your children, just as parents of boys should vaccinate them against HPV; not only for their safety, but for the safety of their partners.
    - blindriver 3y ago
      > The COVID vaccine showed a positive impact in terms of disease severity and long term impacts. We are talking about the children's vaccine. The COVID vaccine showed no efficacy for children, on top of the already practically-nil symptoms that COVID itself had on children.
      - irq 3y ago
        > The COVID vaccine showed no efficacy for children This is false. Please don’t spread misinformation here. Finally, please consider the possibility that your reasoning skills are not sufficient for the conclusions you’re making.
d6e 3y ago
HPV causes oral cancer in boys which is why they give it to boys.
- _mlbt 3y ago
  Also boys can infect girls with HPV. Oh and in rare cases HPV can cause penile cancer.
cperciva 3y ago
including boys who can't get cervical cancer True enough (modulo questions of how trans people are identified) but while HPV is best known for causing cervical cancer, it also causes cancers of the penis, anus, mouth, and throat.
- f731d3a6-1e22 3y ago
  > but while the HPV is best known for causing cervical cancer, it also causes cancers of the penis, anus, mouth, and throat. or > but while the HPV vaccine is best known for preventing cervical cancer, it also prevents cancers of the penis, anus, mouth, and throat. FTFY
  - cperciva 3y ago
    I wrote what I did deliberately; I wasn't sure if any trials had tested the other cancers (although it would be incredibly surprising if they weren't similarly prevented).
    - f731d3a6-1e22 3y ago
      Makes sense Still you wrote "HPV vaccine is best known for causing", thats what I wanted to fix
      - cperciva 3y ago
        Whoops! Thanks, I fixed that.
massover 3y ago
One reason (besides moral) that a boy may want to get vaccinated against HPV is that HPV is linked to anal cancer. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/anal-cancer https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas... I know people that if they were vaccinated against HPV like I am, they wouldn’t have needed anal cancer treatment. It seems worth it to me.
- blindriver 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stats.htm https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stats.htm > HPV is so common that nearly all sexually active men and women get the virus at some point in their lives.
  - Zak 3y ago
    The CDC says: "HPV is so common that nearly all sexually active men and women get the virus at some point in their lives." https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stats.htm https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stats.htm
evantbyrne 3y ago
At this point COVID mRNA vaccine fear mongering is just shameful. So many excess deaths in America in unvaccinated populations. I haven't looked at the data recently, but vividly recall mortality rates hovering around 10:1 during peak times.
- fuckyah 3y ago
  [dead]
- blindriver 3y ago
  By the time omicron became the prevalent variant, which is the time when the children’s vaccine became available, the notion of excess deaths for unvaccinated had vanished. In terms of children specifically, overall the number of children who died from Covid was extremely small and almost all died because of underlying conditions not from Covid.
  - evantbyrne 3y ago
    COVID mortality has always been correlated with age. Even so, excess deaths indicate that the official stats are an undercount. And vaccination mandates had broader positive effects beyond just child mortality. Children/teens don't typically die from the flu, but still benefit from flu shots. The people around them who would otherwise be infected also benefited from vaccination drives.

TheNightman 3y ago

I remember when I got my second dose of gardasil I blacked out in the waiting room after and woke up on the ground with rugburn on my face. I later learned I had fallen over and had what appeared to be a seizure. I didn’t even know what it was I was being vaccinated for at the time, I was pretty young. I was a little peeved when I found out that, as a male, I didn’t even need the vaccine. Needless to say I’ve been skeptical of vaccines and the pharmaceutical industry as a whole ever since.

ipqk 3y ago
The vaccine protects men against a variety of cancers as well as genital warts.
iamtheworstdev 3y ago
the vaccine is still beneficial to men.

fuckyah 3y ago

[dead]

bnprks 3y ago

I'm sorry about negative experiences and/or regrets other commenters might have about their vaccinations. Measuring the risk/reward profile of vaccines seems far from simple, particularly in cases like this where the large benefits (no cancer) and risks (autoimmune problems) may both be quite rare for any individual. It is too bad if the study didn't fully capture possible risks in this case, and hopefully follow-up studies and monitoring can help better describe the risk profile. It's worth noting the benefits of HPV vaccination do seem to be quite real, though. In the US, >20% of the female population has a high-risk HPV infection [1], and cervical cancer runs at ~12k new cases and ~4k deaths a year [2]. A follow-up study found women vaccinated before age 17 had about 88% reduction in cervical cancer, with around 53% for women vaccinated at 17-30 years of age [3] (presumably later-vaccinated women had a high chance of already having an HPV infection so the vaccine wouldn't be useful). I think potentially saving >3.5k lives and >10k cervical cancer cases annually in the US is a pretty good return if we can get widespread HPV vaccination, though of course we should also work hard to study and minimize vaccine side-effects. I'm similarly hopeful of news about EBV as a cause of multiple sclerosis [4], which is another situation where preventing a widespread infection might prevent rare but serious illnesses. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db280.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db280.htm [2] https://gis.cdc.gov/Cancer/USCS/#/Trends/1,2,73,1,3,value,23 https://gis.cdc.gov/Cancer/USCS/#/Trends/1,2,73,1,3,value,23 [3] https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2020/hpv-vaccine-prevents-cervical-cancer-sweden-study https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2020... [4] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/epstein-barr-virus-may-be-leading-cause-of-multiple-sclerosis/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/epstein-bar...

ipqk 3y ago

from 2017

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Slava_Propanei 3y ago

[dead]