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Thank you for the thoughtful response! I have actually read Extreme Ownership. I agreed with most of it, although one thing I started noticing is what I'd call

by jvans 3y ago

Thank you for the thoughtful response! I have actually read Extreme Ownership. I agreed with most of it, although one thing I started noticing is what I'd call "fake ownership". Once people realize the value of ownership, they try to game the system and use those tools to manipulate. Boeing CEO's response to the latest disaster comes to mind. He claims "this is our fault, we'll fix it". But it's hard to take it at face value when you know the story. I guess like most aspects of human behavior, there's an element of earnesty that needs to be present. Have you read any of the books on rickover? I can find three: 1. Rickover and the Nuclear Navy 2. The Rickover Effect: How One Man Made a Difference 3. Nuclear Navy, 1946-1962 Would love to know if you have a recommendation or anything else on rickover you'd recommend reading. This guy seems worth studying

hayst4ck 3y ago
I have not read them (yet). This is a summary of one of those I think: https://www.ans.org/news/article-1592/caught-in-the-leadership-paradox/ https://www.ans.org/news/article-1592/caught-in-the-leadersh... That page itself references: The Never-Ending Challenge of Engineering: Admiral H.G. Rickover in His Own Words which appears to be on kindle. "Admiral Hyman Rickover" is another book that doesn't appear in your list. https://rickover.com/ https://rickover.com/ is a site that recommends a couple of books. There is a PBS documentary-ish thing that can be rented on a couple streaming services: https://shop.pbs.org/WC1852.html https://shop.pbs.org/WC1852.html Google is surprisingly sparse on him, so combing over his Wikipedia references was my plan. I've also found it hard to find a list of his congressional testimonies, but I am pretty interested in that. You can also watch some interviews on YouTube. Rickover was a person who successfully spoke truth to power, which made him enemies. I have a hard time telling how much influence the power he spoke truth to has had over his legacy. Watching some of his interviews that can be found on youtube are a very "never meet your heroes" kind of experience. The greatest criticism of Rickover is that he did not create a system that produced more Rickover's, which created a sort of "succession" problem and "bus factor" problem. On the flip side it is very hard to argue with his results and legacy. These are some other non-exhaustive HN discussions of him: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28574622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28574622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36080015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36080015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38383206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38383206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38178207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38178207 > He claims "this is our fault, we'll fix it" That is exactly the opposite of Rickover's idea of ownership. This is "our" fault means that everyone is responsible, which paradoxically means no one is responsible. In tech "this is owned by everyone" means it is completely neglected except by "heroes" who are on the path to burning out because they have leadership that has no idea what is going on because if they did, then someone would be directly responsible for the state of whatever is communally "owned". Rickover's philosophy (from what I gather) is as simple as the difference between "our" and "my." Rickover would have definitely said "my" fault. "This is my fault, I am responsible, I will fix it." A CEO has the most power and therefore the most responsibility, so a CEO who diffuses responsibility will find that no one else wants responsibility either. It is debatable whether Rickvoer was properly responsible since there is rumor that during the USS thresher incident he distanced himself from responsibility, but I think his philosophy is very very clear about the distinction between "our fault" and "my fault" and how important that difference is.

by jvans 3y ago

hayst4ck 3y ago

I have not read them (yet). This is a summary of one of those I think: https://www.ans.org/news/article-1592/caught-in-the-leadership-paradox/ https://www.ans.org/news/article-1592/caught-in-the-leadersh... That page itself references: The Never-Ending Challenge of Engineering: Admiral H.G. Rickover in His Own Words which appears to be on kindle. "Admiral Hyman Rickover" is another book that doesn't appear in your list. https://rickover.com/ https://rickover.com/ is a site that recommends a couple of books. There is a PBS documentary-ish thing that can be rented on a couple streaming services: https://shop.pbs.org/WC1852.html https://shop.pbs.org/WC1852.html Google is surprisingly sparse on him, so combing over his Wikipedia references was my plan. I've also found it hard to find a list of his congressional testimonies, but I am pretty interested in that. You can also watch some interviews on YouTube. Rickover was a person who successfully spoke truth to power, which made him enemies. I have a hard time telling how much influence the power he spoke truth to has had over his legacy. Watching some of his interviews that can be found on youtube are a very "never meet your heroes" kind of experience. The greatest criticism of Rickover is that he did not create a system that produced more Rickover's, which created a sort of "succession" problem and "bus factor" problem. On the flip side it is very hard to argue with his results and legacy. These are some other non-exhaustive HN discussions of him: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28574622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28574622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36080015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36080015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38383206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38383206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38178207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38178207 > He claims "this is our fault, we'll fix it" That is exactly the opposite of Rickover's idea of ownership. This is "our" fault means that everyone is responsible, which paradoxically means no one is responsible. In tech "this is owned by everyone" means it is completely neglected except by "heroes" who are on the path to burning out because they have leadership that has no idea what is going on because if they did, then someone would be directly responsible for the state of whatever is communally "owned". Rickover's philosophy (from what I gather) is as simple as the difference between "our" and "my." Rickover would have definitely said "my" fault. "This is my fault, I am responsible, I will fix it." A CEO has the most power and therefore the most responsibility, so a CEO who diffuses responsibility will find that no one else wants responsibility either. It is debatable whether Rickvoer was properly responsible since there is rumor that during the USS thresher incident he distanced himself from responsibility, but I think his philosophy is very very clear about the distinction between "our fault" and "my fault" and how important that difference is.