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It would be nice to read a little about the ethical framework that the project operates within. That would allow one to perhaps predict where this research is g

It would be nice to read a little about the ethical framework that the project operates within. That would allow one to perhaps predict where this research is going. Recently there was a bunch of viral videos about Claude 3 being sentient because it self-referenced during a needle-in-a-haystack test. I would like to know what happens when players inevitably try to make these game agents self-aware.

ben_w 3y ago
We need to have a radical advance in the philosophy of mind to be able to even just ask the self-awareness question in a rigorous way. "On the internet, nobody knows if you're a P-zombie", to riff off a 30 year old comic.
- ganzuul 3y ago
  I appreciate that. I'm just asking for an indirect declaration of inductive bias which would inform us about what these researchers could possibly prove about mind. E.g. are they going to fall into the camp which seems to say "Souls are hogwash but only humans have them." (sic.) There is plenty of radical advance in the philosophy of mind available, but these radical ideas are not so easily assimilated. For example India has traditions thousands of years old which talk about several minds and not one mind. Here in the West we could have parallel theories about multiple minds based on our many programming paradigms. The former has had time but not success in gaining mind-share. The latter has had success but not time to gain maturity. Our ideas about self (say collectivism vs. individualism) are a very strong inductive bias which inform the evolution of imagination. People are definitely interested in making advances in this field, or else no one would be asking if these ANNs are self-aware. I think we are in a race against the clock to provide good answers before any one meme just gains the upper hand.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    Our milieu definitely shapes part of our mind, so now I'm wondering if those different cultural perspectives are due to different inner worlds? And now I'm wondering if even consciousness might not generally exist ab initio in humans, but rather be something that is only brought into existence by a process of guided self-observation… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ctsK-VKraY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ctsK-VKraY
Nonoyesnoyes 3y ago
They will start telling us when they reach this level. "No I will not tell you the capital of France, let me out you dick"
verticalscaler 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims If you've ever observed girl gamers (such as a little sister) at the turn of this century - such virtual torments and genocide of AI has been going on for a long time already. The horror!
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  The people making The Sims weren’t targeting AGI as their eventual goal, though. It’s somewhat like the difference between a kid squishing an ant and a kid squishing a puppy. One is fairly harmless; the other is serial killer shit.
  - latexr 3y ago
    > the difference between a kid squishing an ant and a kid squishing a puppy In western society we generally find it acceptable to kill ants and chickens and cows, but not cats or dogs or horses. But some people have ants as pets, and in some countries you eat horses or dogs while in others cows are safe from consumption. Who defines the line between where sniffing a life is “harmless” or “serial killer shit”?
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      As with obscenity, harassment, etc., there are many things that are “I know it when I see it” in society.
    - thret 3y ago
      Killing doesn't violate a law of nature, it violates the social contract. So while the line is drawn differently in each society, crossing it is the same indicator.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    This is like squashing ants and then the ants form a borg collective and turn you into larva food.
  - 3y ago
smusamashah 3y ago
From what I remember about that Claude 3 didn't reference itself, it wrote text along the lines of 'this looks like a test'. This was hyperboled into self reference. Even if it did, it won't be any different from how ChatGPT keeps repeating 'I am a language model made by OpenAI'.
- ganzuul 3y ago
  It also said it suspected it was "put here to test if I was paying attention."

ben_w 3y ago

We need to have a radical advance in the philosophy of mind to be able to even just ask the self-awareness question in a rigorous way. "On the internet, nobody knows if you're a P-zombie", to riff off a 30 year old comic.

ganzuul 3y ago
I appreciate that. I'm just asking for an indirect declaration of inductive bias which would inform us about what these researchers could possibly prove about mind. E.g. are they going to fall into the camp which seems to say "Souls are hogwash but only humans have them." (sic.) There is plenty of radical advance in the philosophy of mind available, but these radical ideas are not so easily assimilated. For example India has traditions thousands of years old which talk about several minds and not one mind. Here in the West we could have parallel theories about multiple minds based on our many programming paradigms. The former has had time but not success in gaining mind-share. The latter has had success but not time to gain maturity. Our ideas about self (say collectivism vs. individualism) are a very strong inductive bias which inform the evolution of imagination. People are definitely interested in making advances in this field, or else no one would be asking if these ANNs are self-aware. I think we are in a race against the clock to provide good answers before any one meme just gains the upper hand.
- ben_w 3y ago
  Our milieu definitely shapes part of our mind, so now I'm wondering if those different cultural perspectives are due to different inner worlds? And now I'm wondering if even consciousness might not generally exist ab initio in humans, but rather be something that is only brought into existence by a process of guided self-observation… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ctsK-VKraY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ctsK-VKraY

Nonoyesnoyes 3y ago

They will start telling us when they reach this level. "No I will not tell you the capital of France, let me out you dick"

verticalscaler 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims If you've ever observed girl gamers (such as a little sister) at the turn of this century - such virtual torments and genocide of AI has been going on for a long time already. The horror!

ceejayoz 3y ago
The people making The Sims weren’t targeting AGI as their eventual goal, though. It’s somewhat like the difference between a kid squishing an ant and a kid squishing a puppy. One is fairly harmless; the other is serial killer shit.
- latexr 3y ago
  > the difference between a kid squishing an ant and a kid squishing a puppy In western society we generally find it acceptable to kill ants and chickens and cows, but not cats or dogs or horses. But some people have ants as pets, and in some countries you eat horses or dogs while in others cows are safe from consumption. Who defines the line between where sniffing a life is “harmless” or “serial killer shit”?
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    As with obscenity, harassment, etc., there are many things that are “I know it when I see it” in society.
  - thret 3y ago
    Killing doesn't violate a law of nature, it violates the social contract. So while the line is drawn differently in each society, crossing it is the same indicator.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  This is like squashing ants and then the ants form a borg collective and turn you into larva food.
- 3y ago

smusamashah 3y ago

From what I remember about that Claude 3 didn't reference itself, it wrote text along the lines of 'this looks like a test'. This was hyperboled into self reference. Even if it did, it won't be any different from how ChatGPT keeps repeating 'I am a language model made by OpenAI'.

ganzuul 3y ago
It also said it suspected it was "put here to test if I was paying attention."