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These creatures seem unfeasible from an engineering perspective. From the image, their substantial head (the weight of a man?) is on the end of a six meter hor

These creatures seem unfeasible from an engineering perspective. From the image, their substantial head (the weight of a man?) is on the end of a six meter horizontal length (6m is my estimate, from the image). Yes, the body is a big weight, and yes there is the counterbalance of a (relatively small) tail. If I were to hold a small broom, with the brush end away from me, I am only able to do this for a short while - and yet, these creatures spent all their days like this, swaying their heads around as they go! It seems to me that the tension and pain these creatures must have been in because of their design and the effect of gravity would be too great to bear. If we look at something comparable that we know exists, we see a giraffe - these are slightly unfeasible too, but they are far smaller (3m neck?) but the angle of the neck is almost upright, hence there have nothing like the force dinosaurs would have had to bear. It would be good to have a structural engineer go over the numbers for this dinosaur. I would expect a breaking point would be reached, and that there is no way the long neck could support such a heavy head over such a length without failure. We are talking about flesh and bone (which is surely incredible in its way, but holding huge weight up - the head - is not what meat and bone are good for; these are not lengths of metal. PS, apparently a giraffe neck is only 2m, not 3 as I guessed.

Jensson 3y ago
> If I were to hold a small broom, with the brush end away from me, I am only able to do this for a short while I can do that for hours, do you mean you hold the broom in only a hand with no other support? Instead consider holding a broom by supporting it with your arm like people held spears, humans held spears that way for hours no problem. This dinosaur was built with the body to optimally support that neck and head, it doesn't have the same issues you have with that broom at all. And it can be that long the same skyscrapers can be so high, by having a big base and being smaller and smaller the further away it gets.
- verisimi 3y ago
  I'm getting at the fact that the head and neck are nearer to horizontal, not vertical. If you have your arm extended, and are then holding a broom out (or any weight really, or even no weight at all) you cannot hold it in that position for hours. (To me, it sounds like a stress position, a form of torture!) But that was these dinosaurs' design, purportedly. Re spears, the shape has no bearing if you are holding it at its balancing point. Alternatively, imagine building this sort of shape with something like Lego.. its unfeasible to have a 6m horizontal length, then a heavy head, and expect the Lego to not break.
  - hnlmorg 3y ago
    You keep saying “design” like this dinosaur would have been architected a certain way by some form of intelligence, rather than evolved over millions of years through dumb luck. Your earlier comment about the pain of muscular stress implies that the dinosaurs joints, muscular and nervous system would be identical to that of human limbs. Which is unlikely if such a neck were to evolve. Also your comparison to Lego is weird. Lego, which is something that was designed, was purposely designed with the goal of being easy to disassemble. So it’s not going to have the same structural integrity as stone, metal, nor bone.
    - verisimi 3y ago
      > You keep saying “design” like this dinosaur would have been architected a certain way by some form of intelligence, rather than evolved over millions of years through dumb luck. Yes, I do. Because we are several million years away from being able to personally verify the ideas we are presented with, when it comes to dinosaurs. We are dealing with a hypothesis based on the deductions from a small handful of bones, not reality. Eg, when I was younger dinosaurs were never feathered. Pretty much all are now. It's that the ideas evolve, not the dinosaurs.
      - hnlmorg 3y ago
        Nobody is going to claim that these theories are bulletproof but that’s an entirely different discussion to the point I was making about using the term “designed”
        verisimi 3y ago
        The thing you can also say about design, is even if there is no designer, a thing is the way it is for rational reasons. A tree wouldn't function as it does if it weren't for its form. I guess, you could I use the synonym "form" instead of "design". It's fine use either term: https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/design https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/design
robbiep 3y ago
It’s amazing what evolutionary algorithms will produce vs what an engineering mind will believe is possible
sarchertech 3y ago
Titanosaurs also had hollow pockets in their bones filled with air which made them much lighter than they would be otherwise.

Jensson 3y ago

> If I were to hold a small broom, with the brush end away from me, I am only able to do this for a short while I can do that for hours, do you mean you hold the broom in only a hand with no other support? Instead consider holding a broom by supporting it with your arm like people held spears, humans held spears that way for hours no problem. This dinosaur was built with the body to optimally support that neck and head, it doesn't have the same issues you have with that broom at all. And it can be that long the same skyscrapers can be so high, by having a big base and being smaller and smaller the further away it gets.

verisimi 3y ago
I'm getting at the fact that the head and neck are nearer to horizontal, not vertical. If you have your arm extended, and are then holding a broom out (or any weight really, or even no weight at all) you cannot hold it in that position for hours. (To me, it sounds like a stress position, a form of torture!) But that was these dinosaurs' design, purportedly. Re spears, the shape has no bearing if you are holding it at its balancing point. Alternatively, imagine building this sort of shape with something like Lego.. its unfeasible to have a 6m horizontal length, then a heavy head, and expect the Lego to not break.
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  You keep saying “design” like this dinosaur would have been architected a certain way by some form of intelligence, rather than evolved over millions of years through dumb luck. Your earlier comment about the pain of muscular stress implies that the dinosaurs joints, muscular and nervous system would be identical to that of human limbs. Which is unlikely if such a neck were to evolve. Also your comparison to Lego is weird. Lego, which is something that was designed, was purposely designed with the goal of being easy to disassemble. So it’s not going to have the same structural integrity as stone, metal, nor bone.
  - verisimi 3y ago
    > You keep saying “design” like this dinosaur would have been architected a certain way by some form of intelligence, rather than evolved over millions of years through dumb luck. Yes, I do. Because we are several million years away from being able to personally verify the ideas we are presented with, when it comes to dinosaurs. We are dealing with a hypothesis based on the deductions from a small handful of bones, not reality. Eg, when I was younger dinosaurs were never feathered. Pretty much all are now. It's that the ideas evolve, not the dinosaurs.
    - hnlmorg 3y ago
      Nobody is going to claim that these theories are bulletproof but that’s an entirely different discussion to the point I was making about using the term “designed”
      - verisimi 3y ago
        The thing you can also say about design, is even if there is no designer, a thing is the way it is for rational reasons. A tree wouldn't function as it does if it weren't for its form. I guess, you could I use the synonym "form" instead of "design". It's fine use either term: https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/design https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/design

robbiep 3y ago

It’s amazing what evolutionary algorithms will produce vs what an engineering mind will believe is possible

sarchertech 3y ago

Titanosaurs also had hollow pockets in their bones filled with air which made them much lighter than they would be otherwise.