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Deadly morel mushroom outbreak highlights big gaps in fungi knowledge
- throw0101d 3y agoLast of Us here we come… :) * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_of_Us#Plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_of_Us#Plot
- throwup238 3y agoIt's already here: https://journals.ku.edu/reptilesandamphibians/article/view/20966/19496 https://journals.ku.edu/reptilesandamphibians/article/view/2...
- Borrible 3y agoThe Future is Wild, and The Morel is a Harsh Mistress. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/Hothouse https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/Hothouse Incidentially, ... or probably not ..., I'm reading The Fungus at the moment. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/TheFungus https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/TheFungus
- novia 3y agoNever eat raw mushrooms... ever. Lesson one of my mushroom identification class.
- werdnapk 3y agoI've always cooked morels, but eating raw white mushrooms seems pretty common in vegetable platters for example.
- dunham 3y agoAs do I, although I prefer them cooked. The article claims that even if they're not toxics, the chitin renders the nutrients unavailable to digestion. (Which is plausible, but I'd like to see actual citations for it.) On the poisonous front, my grandfather used to pick and eat Gyromitra Esculenta. His preparation method apparently rendered them safe, but he had no idea they were deadly when not properly prepared. (It's been a long time, but I recall that he'd soak his mushrooms in salted water to "get the bugs out" and would typically cook them in gravy.)
- baby 3y agoor salads
- buescher 3y agoI've merrily eaten raw white mushrooms like everyone else but some people have sensitivities, and like any other raw vegetable they can be contaminated with bacteria or other pathogens.
- novia 3y agoIt's common, but stupid. Button mushrooms contain a known carcinogen for rats, agaritine, which is easily broken down when they are cooked. Many other mycotoxins in other mushrooms are rendered inert by cooking as well. https://paulstamets.com/news/raw-edible-mushrooms https://paulstamets.com/news/raw-edible-mushrooms https://old.reddit.com/r/mycology/comments/qm3dag/can_anybody_explain_paul_stamets_response/ https://old.reddit.com/r/mycology/comments/qm3dag/can_anybod...
- pphysch 3y agoDoes anyone actually prefer eating mushrooms raw & unflavored? It's like eating raw eggplant to me...
- 2024throwaway 3y agoOn a salad? Absolutely. Has a delightful texture.
- genewitch 3y agoA weird quirk: i know a few people who had iron deficiencies that would eat raw unwashed mushrooms as a side effect. Now, i was very young when i was told this, so i may be misinformed (about the reasoning. I assuredly saw them eat them straight from the flat without washing)
- chasil 3y agoIs this specifically involving a hydrazine? I got downvoted for this yesterday. "Even the cultivated A. bisporus contains small amounts of hydrazines, the most abundant of which is agaritine (a mycotoxin and carcinogen). However, the hydrazines are destroyed by moderate heat when cooking." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushroom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushroom
- rockinghigh 3y agoThey have not found the cause yet: > Food specimens were tested for multiple substances, including volatile and nonvolatile organic compounds and enteric pathogens. Neither clinical testing nor food testing identified a causative agent. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7310a1.htm?s_cid=mm7310a1_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7310a1.htm?s_cid=mm...
- COGlory 3y agoGallatin County did two inspections of Dave's. The first one was a disaster - fish left in non-temp controlled environments for far too long. The 2nd one, not that much improved. I'm still unconvinced that it was the Morels
- zdragnar 3y agoThe article goes through the rather in depth way that they narrowed down the list of potential causes to specifically the mushrooms. If it was the way they handled their fish, it seems unlikely to me that their methodology would still have pointed to the morels. This is a sushi restaurant- pretty much everyone is eating some of their fish.
- dml2135 3y agoCould it be both? I’m imagining a cross contamination issue, like the morels being left on a contaminated counter.
- burnished 3y agoRight? Though my understanding is you want the fish frozen anyway to kill parasites and from there quality mostly comes down to reliability of frozen transport out of the port
- COGlory 3y agoThis was what I was thinking
- zdragnar 3y agoThe morels went into a single item. If they picked something up due to cross contamination, then the other dishes would also have been affected.
- tptacek 3y agoI know that this is a low-effort observation but what stuck out to me in that story was "Dave's sushi in Bozeman". Like, there are some red flags just in that name.
- asimpletune 3y agoThe problem with harvesting mushrooms is that knowledge only applies regionally. Most of the time the people who get sick are travelers from mushroom-loving countries who forage while abroad.
- bubblyworld 3y agoThat's true to an extent, but some families (agaricaceae and boletaceae come to mind) are found pretty much everywhere, and their edible members are easy to identify. Do you have a source for that? I would be surprised if the majority of poisonings (in the USAS, say) are travelers.
- binarymax 3y agoThe effectiveness is hotly debated in literature [0], but I recommend everyone keep activated charcoal in their house. At the first sign of food poisoning take a couple tablets. It’s commonly used in Asia and has saved my life at least twice. For some reason it’s not as popular in the western world, but you can find it on the shelf in many pharmacies. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34424785/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34424785/
- ajkjk 3y agoValuable point, but um.. it has saved your life twice? What the heck are you eating?
- oofdoof 3y agoExactly. Binarymax, spill the beans.
- binarymax 3y agoLOL fair question so story time I guess. First incident. In late 2005, I'm in Bangkok for business. On the 3rd or 4th night I ventured to an outdoor restaurant, and ate their "specialty" which was raw shrimp, garlic, and crushed chili. Yes, I was an idiot. On the walk back to the hotel I started to feel it. Broke out into a cold sweat, doubled over, and realized my meal was bad news. I managed to get back to the hotel and asked for help. I thought they would call an ambulance but instead they gave me some charcoal, which I had never even heard of before - but they convinced me to take it. I started to feel some relief after 30 minutes or so. I still felt terrible for a day or two, but I could tell it would have been far worse had I not taken it. Second incident. In 2012 I'm in Madrid on Business, and a colleague and I met up at a somewhat empty restaurant. We split a paella, because we were foreigners and forgot we weren't in Barcelona. We went back to our separate hotels in different parts of town. I had some charcoal with me, and realized I needed to take some. I got back home fine, my colleague went back home and ended up in the emergency room - took her about 10 days to recover. It's not something I take often (maybe once every two or three years). But I swear by it and always travel with it just in case an adventurous culinary experience ends poorly.
- Alex3917 3y ago> On April 8, the morels were served partially cooked, with a hot, boiled sauce poured over the raw mushrooms and left to marinate for 75 minutes; and on April 17, they were served uncooked and cold-marinated. All morels are poisonous when eaten raw. There is zero gap in knowledge here.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jackyinger 3y agoAnd In general eating raw mushrooms is a no-go.
- Faaak 3y agoParis mushrooms? Everybody eats them raw in France ? Or is it because they are cultivated industrially ?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- LegitShady 3y agothey're cultivated because they're not poisonous, not the other way around. they aren't morels, they're a different order of mushroom.
- tptacek 3y agoCultivated mainstream mushrooms (buttons, cremini) are fine raw. And everyone eats them raw.
- Alex3917 3y agoThe commercial button mushrooms are still carcinogenic when eaten raw. The reason you see them at salad bars is because in practice there is no way to sue the salad bar if you get cancer 20 years later or whatever. But it's still not a good idea to eat them raw. The only two mushrooms people generally recommend trying raw are the beefsteak polypore and the caesar's amanita. But this isn't because they are healthier when eaten raw, but rather because they have some unique culinary properties that are considered worth the risk when consumed in small quantities.
- oniony 3y ago>Morel of the story Surely intentional.
- mock-possum 3y agoThe author seems like a fun guy
- genewitch 3y agothis may be a shit take but i won't ever forage for mushrooms. Every other story seems to be "got sick" vs "i can eat for free from the local woodlands". If i ever want to harvest my own mushrooms i'll buy the plug sdtarters from a reputable place, i think.
- BenjiWiebe 3y agoMorels are pretty safe to forage for. You just have to do your 5 minutes of studying so you know that they must be well cooked before eating.
- genewitch 3y agoi wanted to add both a pun and an anecdote to an old(er) post. I will, however, buy plugs and grow my own at some point soon!
- Anotheroneagain 3y agoI can only see the table of contents, and not the whole article (it's from some magazine from the 60s), but supposedly it's toxic when combined with alcohol.
- mock-possum 3y ago> But the FDA reported that "samples of morel mushrooms collected from the restaurant were screened for pesticides, heavy metals, toxins, and pathogens. No significant findings were identified." In addition, the state and local health officials noted that DNA sequencing identified the morels used by the restaurant as Morchella sextelata, a species of true morel. This rules out the possibility that the mushrooms were look-alike morels, called "false morels," which are known to contain a toxin called gyromitrin. So the evidence seems to point to the morels, but we don’t have any idea how they could have caused the effect
- micro_cam 3y agoI've eaten at Dave's and also gather and eat morel's regularly in Montana. Dave's is a popular joint but didn't strike me as particularly good even by Sushi restaurants in Montana standards. They had some creative rolls but seemed to fail to get the basic fish cuts and rice seasoning right. What they were doing marinating the morel's and eating them basically raw is ridiculous. No one who is experienced with morel's does it that way and most mushroom guides contain info on hydrazine contents/risk and suggested cooking methods. March and April is too early for Montana (or most US) Morel's which are commercially picked in forest fires from the previous year once the soil temperature reaches 54 degrees. I heard at one point these were grown in China and wouldn't be shocked if they are a different [sub]species that might contain more hyrazine. There are also some "false morels" that fruit earlier (one species is known as the snow morel as it comes up right after snow melt) but these are easy to identify contain even more hydrazine.
- GoldenRacer 3y agoThe article also claims they were imported from China. They also said samples were sent for genetic testing and confirmed they were of the species Morchella sextelata. Not sure if that is what you're referring to as a species with a higher hydrazine content but I agree with you that you should be cooking them regardless and it's strange to me that they were serving them raw.
- magicalhippo 3y ago> most mushroom guides contain info on hydrazine contents So we should be growing morels on Mars?
- geon 3y agoMy grandpa used to eat false morel. They used to be classified as edible-if-boiled-in-several-waters. These days they are considered inedible.
- x86x87 3y agoWhat a bunch of bs. Deadly morel but nobody died. Sounds like 50 people got food poisoning. Sounds like non-news to me. First: morels can make you sick if not cooked properly, Second: lookup how many people get food poisoning each year. And all this speculation about the mushrooms coming from China. Assume they came from China. So what?
- bubblyworld 3y agoAn interesting aside - last year researchers discovered that indocyanide green (a medical dye) can be used as an antidote for alpha-amanitin poisoning! This is the bad stuff in death caps (amanita phalloides), funeral bells (galerina marginata) and a host of other deadly mushrooms. Potentially a game changer for future mushroom poisoning victims. Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-37714-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-37714-3