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Hey everyone, we considered Clojure and JRuby for developing an open source web framework but gave up at some point due to Oracle's aggressive Java monetizatio

Hey everyone, we considered Clojure and JRuby for developing an open source web framework but gave up at some point due to Oracle's aggressive Java monetization crusade, currently against Google. Sun was a reliable partner for open source community but doesn't Oracle make you afraid while you develop anything java or jvm-related? Could you give us some rationale, why Oracle won't chase your future project or what you must do in order to be immune against being an aggressive target for Oracle, especially if your project grows to be noticeable?

trimbo 14y ago
> Sun was a reliable partner for open source community but doesn't Oracle make you afraid while you develop anything java or jvm-related? The suit is regarding an implementation of Java that did not pay for a license (Oracle's claim, not mine) -- not applications built on the JVM or Java. So I'm curious, what can they do that you fear? They give away the JDK/JRE for free. Ungodly mountains of code are developed on top of this stack. If they wanted to sue users of their software, do you think they'd start with your company, or Bank of America, JP Morgan, etc.?
- deleted 14y ago
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thebluesky 14y ago
Oracle may not have made many friends among Java devs, but it's pretty ridiculous to suggest that developing a Java app is going to put you at risk of anything. Have you violated the license terms of the JDK (GPL 2)? Unless your project is an incompatible Java fork you don't have anything to worry about. Has anyone EVER been sued for simply using standard Java? Can you picture all of IBM's Java-using customers being sued?
- diminish 14y ago
  I am not talking about a simple app developed using Java, I am talking about making a JVM based framework based on a fork of JRuby and JVM. Is this against some license?
  - pron 14y ago
    Hmm, probably not (if your code is GPL), but you really don't want to fork the JVM (unless your name is Cliff Click). It's one of the most complex pieces of software ever written, and it's the most performant managed runtime out there. It's used in anything from tiny electronic devices to huge data crunching applications, from hard real-time systems to distributed batch processing. And, it has to be maintained for a lot of different CPUs and OSs (all work you'll have to do if you fork it). On the off chance you could make a very specific use case slightly faster on a non-compatible JVM (which, BTW, you'll not be allowed to call Java), it is certainly more trouble than it's worth. Just use it. The entire world does.
  - technomancy 14y ago
    You can fork the JVM, but the patent license will only cover you if you are pass the compatibility kit, which Oracle may withhold whenever they feel like it. So from a copyright perspective you are fine (that's the point of the GPL) but from a trademark perspective you may not call it Java, and from a patent perspective there's nothing stopping Oracle from attempting to crush you in jurisdictions like the US with bad patent laws.

trimbo 14y ago

> Sun was a reliable partner for open source community but doesn't Oracle make you afraid while you develop anything java or jvm-related? The suit is regarding an implementation of Java that did not pay for a license (Oracle's claim, not mine) -- not applications built on the JVM or Java. So I'm curious, what can they do that you fear? They give away the JDK/JRE for free. Ungodly mountains of code are developed on top of this stack. If they wanted to sue users of their software, do you think they'd start with your company, or Bank of America, JP Morgan, etc.?

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

thebluesky 14y ago

Oracle may not have made many friends among Java devs, but it's pretty ridiculous to suggest that developing a Java app is going to put you at risk of anything. Have you violated the license terms of the JDK (GPL 2)? Unless your project is an incompatible Java fork you don't have anything to worry about. Has anyone EVER been sued for simply using standard Java? Can you picture all of IBM's Java-using customers being sued?

diminish 14y ago
I am not talking about a simple app developed using Java, I am talking about making a JVM based framework based on a fork of JRuby and JVM. Is this against some license?
- pron 14y ago
  Hmm, probably not (if your code is GPL), but you really don't want to fork the JVM (unless your name is Cliff Click). It's one of the most complex pieces of software ever written, and it's the most performant managed runtime out there. It's used in anything from tiny electronic devices to huge data crunching applications, from hard real-time systems to distributed batch processing. And, it has to be maintained for a lot of different CPUs and OSs (all work you'll have to do if you fork it). On the off chance you could make a very specific use case slightly faster on a non-compatible JVM (which, BTW, you'll not be allowed to call Java), it is certainly more trouble than it's worth. Just use it. The entire world does.
- technomancy 14y ago
  You can fork the JVM, but the patent license will only cover you if you are pass the compatibility kit, which Oracle may withhold whenever they feel like it. So from a copyright perspective you are fine (that's the point of the GPL) but from a trademark perspective you may not call it Java, and from a patent perspective there's nothing stopping Oracle from attempting to crush you in jurisdictions like the US with bad patent laws.