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The massive buildup of military capacity in Europe, and the eagerness of Macron (and others) to forge a capable European army should really be placed in a large

The massive buildup of military capacity in Europe, and the eagerness of Macron (and others) to forge a capable European army should really be placed in a larger context to be properly understood. People forget that the ultimate, long term plan at the highest levels in the coalition between finance and politics in Europe (the one that drove the creation of the EU and is only political force that so far has mattered in the long run) is to one day cut the umbilical cord to the US and establish Europe as an independent force to be reckoned with. For all the talk of transatlantic unity, the leaders of Europe can't wait for the day when they can have a mighty army of their own, and challenge anyone (including the US) on the international stage again. It's controversial so they need to tread carefully, but no-one should be surprised when the day comes when NATO splits in two, perhaps amicably, but likely not.

TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
> and challenge anyone (including the US) on the international stage again. This is something what US diplomacy wanted to avoid by keeping US Army in Europe, so Europe has no reason to arm itself. Sure USA are paying for it and some of Americans don't like it, but in the long term it is keeping Europe in state of suppressed power, which does not challenge US interests around the world and actually mostly cooperating with USA. Isolationism of USA under Trump and MAGA will weaken this approach and will give chance to EU to emerge as 3rd super power next to USA and China.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > This is something what US diplomacy wanted to avoid by keeping US Army in Europe The US has been actively promoting European political unification and internal defense integration for decades, and was also a backer of the “United States of Europe” vision at least as far back as when Churchill articulated it after WWII. On of the major goals of NATO and integrating West Germany into it was to reduce intra-European tensions.
yencabulator 3y ago
So now we have Americans complaining about European countries building up their military capability while simultaneously complaining that many NATO countries are not putting enough of their GDP into their military budget? Heads you win, tails I lose?
- stareatgoats 3y ago
  > So now we have Americans complaining Not sure who these Americans are (I'm sure they exist). Personally I'm as European as they come, but perhaps more dispassionate than most. I don't think one should identify too much with whatever context we coincidentally happen to find ourselves, and much less engage any sort of cheering match. The type of historical shift we are talking about here is largely indifferent to our cheering anyway.

TheLoafOfBread 3y ago

> and challenge anyone (including the US) on the international stage again. This is something what US diplomacy wanted to avoid by keeping US Army in Europe, so Europe has no reason to arm itself. Sure USA are paying for it and some of Americans don't like it, but in the long term it is keeping Europe in state of suppressed power, which does not challenge US interests around the world and actually mostly cooperating with USA. Isolationism of USA under Trump and MAGA will weaken this approach and will give chance to EU to emerge as 3rd super power next to USA and China.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> This is something what US diplomacy wanted to avoid by keeping US Army in Europe The US has been actively promoting European political unification and internal defense integration for decades, and was also a backer of the “United States of Europe” vision at least as far back as when Churchill articulated it after WWII. On of the major goals of NATO and integrating West Germany into it was to reduce intra-European tensions.

yencabulator 3y ago

So now we have Americans complaining about European countries building up their military capability while simultaneously complaining that many NATO countries are not putting enough of their GDP into their military budget? Heads you win, tails I lose?

stareatgoats 3y ago
> So now we have Americans complaining Not sure who these Americans are (I'm sure they exist). Personally I'm as European as they come, but perhaps more dispassionate than most. I don't think one should identify too much with whatever context we coincidentally happen to find ourselves, and much less engage any sort of cheering match. The type of historical shift we are talking about here is largely indifferent to our cheering anyway.