5 ms·

Maybe I'm old fashioned but one of the biggest barriers for me adopting VR/AR is there isn't a socially acceptable way to "duck out" of a VR experience you're j

by bunnie 3y ago

Maybe I'm old fashioned but one of the biggest barriers for me adopting VR/AR is there isn't a socially acceptable way to "duck out" of a VR experience you're just not into. I've been given a couple of demos of headsets by friends and more often than not by the end I feel trapped -- you're strapped into a thing that fully occupies your visual field, yet it's obvious and socially awkward when you take it off. And your eyes are both covered so there isn't a good way to non-verbally communicate waning interest levels...I suppose a solution is to simply care less if I hurt my friend's feelings but I'd also like a way to spend time with friends without feeling trapped. At least in an f2f or video call meeting that I'm bored of, I can zone out or look at my phone or tap on my laptop, or do anything but stare at the slides. With eye tracking, the headset knows (and presumably everyone else could know as well) when you're tuned out. The eye tracking thing also kind of weirds me out from a privacy standpoint. It's already bad enough that web pages track how long you engage with different portions of content. Now they know what parts of images I stare at, and can algorithmically feed me content based solely on my gaze alone. Does that prospect not weird anyone else out? Or are most normal users like "plug me into AR TikTok, but with gaze mechanics now!"

andsoitis 3y ago
> And your eyes are both covered so there isn't a good way to non-verbally communicate waning interest levels...I suppose a solution is to simply care less if I hurt my friend's feelings but I'd also like a way to spend time with friends without feeling trapped. I hadn’t considered those antisocial patterns that the technology is foisting on users, but I suppose one can also juts directly communicate verbally. Could work in low context cultures but not so well in high context cultures. > The eye tracking thing also kind of weirds me out from a privacy standpoint. Indeed. While I am less worried about Apple “going after me in a direct targeted nefarious way”, I don’t appreciate more levers for technology to disintermediate my manipulate my behavior, emotions, or interactions.
deleted 3y ago
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helpfulContrib 3y ago
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anentropic 3y ago
> The eye tracking thing also kind of weirds me out from a privacy standpoint. I vaguely remember there being some stuff from Apple about this when it launched - the apps don't have a lot of access to that raw tracking data Had a quick google... the doc here has more details https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Apple_Vision_Pro_Privacy_Overview.pdf https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Apple_Vision_Pro_Privacy_...
jncfhnb 3y ago
You’re describing a situation where you’re physically co located and someone is giving you the only headset? I don’t get it. Why not just tell them? What do you do if someone hands you a controller for a tv game equivalent?
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > What do you do if someone hands you a controller for a tv game equivalent? I'm not the GP, but as they said you have all your other body language for communication. In VR-world, you have your eye direction and hands - not even your full eyes, with all the muscles around them that may communicate more than anything else on your body. I suppose you could flip them off. :) It's an interesting point about how VR avatars, for all their 'presence', are very limited. VR video chat seems much better.
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    If someone is showing you a tv show it seems extremely rude to me to not look at the show as a way of passively showing disinterest vs just saying it’s not for you; no?
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      > If someone is showing you a tv show it seems extremely rude to me to not look at the show as a way of passively showing disinterest vs just saying it’s not for you; no? Those aren't your only two options. There are almost infinite ways to communicate.
      - jncfhnb 3y ago
        Like what? What’s a polite, non verbal way to show disinterest that is not available to you when in VR?
        wolverine876 3y ago
        I don't understand your question. That's how people express emotion, mostly. I'll trust you are not being argumentative: Facial expression - eyes (the muscles around them), mouth (smile, blank, frown, etc) - posture, legs, arms, etc etc etc. You can look disinterested, you can look like it's the best thing ever, or any other human emotion.
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baby 3y ago
That's a very interesting comment, because I've definitely felt that just playing a game on console (portable or plugged to a TV) or on PC. Sometimes games get so intense that I can't stop it and I have to force myself to get out of the world. I remember getting a massive headache playing Elden Ring and forcing myself to just stop the game. Also, I've played Catan in VR and felt like I couldn't leave "like that". I had to finish the game and shake hands with the strangers I played with before leaving the game, it just felt like I was really there and it would have been rude to leave the game like that. I did freak out the first time I joined a cinema room (can't remember the name of the game) as when I looked on my left side I saw people staring at me in the cinema room (which made me yell and it made everyone laugh, indicating to me that even my mic was on!)

by bunnie 3y ago

andsoitis 3y ago

> And your eyes are both covered so there isn't a good way to non-verbally communicate waning interest levels...I suppose a solution is to simply care less if I hurt my friend's feelings but I'd also like a way to spend time with friends without feeling trapped. I hadn’t considered those antisocial patterns that the technology is foisting on users, but I suppose one can also juts directly communicate verbally. Could work in low context cultures but not so well in high context cultures. > The eye tracking thing also kind of weirds me out from a privacy standpoint. Indeed. While I am less worried about Apple “going after me in a direct targeted nefarious way”, I don’t appreciate more levers for technology to disintermediate my manipulate my behavior, emotions, or interactions.

deleted 3y ago

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helpfulContrib 3y ago

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anentropic 3y ago

> The eye tracking thing also kind of weirds me out from a privacy standpoint. I vaguely remember there being some stuff from Apple about this when it launched - the apps don't have a lot of access to that raw tracking data Had a quick google... the doc here has more details https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Apple_Vision_Pro_Privacy_Overview.pdf https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Apple_Vision_Pro_Privacy_...

jncfhnb 3y ago

You’re describing a situation where you’re physically co located and someone is giving you the only headset? I don’t get it. Why not just tell them? What do you do if someone hands you a controller for a tv game equivalent?

wolverine876 3y ago
> What do you do if someone hands you a controller for a tv game equivalent? I'm not the GP, but as they said you have all your other body language for communication. In VR-world, you have your eye direction and hands - not even your full eyes, with all the muscles around them that may communicate more than anything else on your body. I suppose you could flip them off. :) It's an interesting point about how VR avatars, for all their 'presence', are very limited. VR video chat seems much better.
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  If someone is showing you a tv show it seems extremely rude to me to not look at the show as a way of passively showing disinterest vs just saying it’s not for you; no?
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    > If someone is showing you a tv show it seems extremely rude to me to not look at the show as a way of passively showing disinterest vs just saying it’s not for you; no? Those aren't your only two options. There are almost infinite ways to communicate.
    - jncfhnb 3y ago
      Like what? What’s a polite, non verbal way to show disinterest that is not available to you when in VR?
      - wolverine876 3y ago
        I don't understand your question. That's how people express emotion, mostly. I'll trust you are not being argumentative: Facial expression - eyes (the muscles around them), mouth (smile, blank, frown, etc) - posture, legs, arms, etc etc etc. You can look disinterested, you can look like it's the best thing ever, or any other human emotion.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

baby 3y ago

That's a very interesting comment, because I've definitely felt that just playing a game on console (portable or plugged to a TV) or on PC. Sometimes games get so intense that I can't stop it and I have to force myself to get out of the world. I remember getting a massive headache playing Elden Ring and forcing myself to just stop the game. Also, I've played Catan in VR and felt like I couldn't leave "like that". I had to finish the game and shake hands with the strangers I played with before leaving the game, it just felt like I was really there and it would have been rude to leave the game like that. I did freak out the first time I joined a cinema room (can't remember the name of the game) as when I looked on my left side I saw people staring at me in the cinema room (which made me yell and it made everyone laugh, indicating to me that even my mic was on!)