4 ms·

Why pick on MTL?

jhbadger 3y ago
And is it a "problem" that Montreal has a mixture of architecture both traditional and modern? That is part of what makes it an interesting city! I understand that varying styles in the source code of programs may not be desirable, but the analogy to city architecture makes no sense.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- VancouverMan 3y ago
  It's an even stranger example to use when you consider Montreal's (and Quebec's) history. During the "Quiet Revolution" era of the 1960s and 1970s, government in Quebec basically became a "Style Czar", to use the article's terminology. Québécois language and culture was forced upon Montreal's sizable and established populations of English-speaking and non-Québécois residents via Loi 101 and other policies. Regardless of one's stance on the matter, the reality is that it was extremely disruptive to Montreal, socially and economically. Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, many residents and businesses ended up leaving Montreal, and moving to cities like Toronto, Calgary, and Vancouver. Toronto, Calgary, and Vancouver subsequently saw significant economic and social growth, while Montreal stagnated throughout the 1980s and 1990s, and even beyond then. Today, Montreal still has a rather fractured society in many ways. Maybe a "Style Czar" figure or mentality can bring a sense of consistency, but forcing it on existing and established communities will likely cause a whole new set of problems.
morkalork 3y ago
Those AI generated staircases make me sad. That's not at all what the city looks like!
fbernier 3y ago
As a montrealer, I was super curious about what the author would do of that analogy but turns out it was very, very bad.
adamgordonbell 3y ago
Author here. It wasn't meant to be a knock on Montreal. But on code bases that have very apparent different eras and styles. The idea actually came from Kate Gregory, in an interview I did with her some time ago, where she talked about some parts of any large C++ code base looking like Old Montreal and some looking like Art Deco or whatever other style. Edit: Yes, Montréal Effect seems better... changing.
- jperras 3y ago
  Lifelong Montréaler here. I think having "problem" in the title is what is ruffling feathers, although I'm not particularly bothered by it. That's perhaps where the analogy is strained the most: stylistic divergence in code can be problematic, but in architecture and urbanism it's typically seen as an asset. Perhaps calling it the "Montréal effect" would be more apropos?
  - sevagh 3y ago
    It's just a low-value analogy. Wikipedia says there's 10,000 cities in the world. Montreal cannot possibly be the exemplar of whatever this post is trying to say.
- ska 3y ago
  I suspect part of the problem (and hence friction) is drawing an analogy to something that's actually a strength/net positive in Montréal as a city, but using it to claim a weakness/net negative in programming languages. Widely homogeneous cities are not necessarily failures, but it's hardly a indicator of somewhere that functions well (as a city).

Why pick on MTL?

And is it a "problem" that Montreal has a mixture of architecture both traditional and modern? That is part of what makes it an interesting city! I understand that varying styles in the source code of programs may not be desirable, but the analogy to city architecture makes no sense.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
VancouverMan 3y ago
It's an even stranger example to use when you consider Montreal's (and Quebec's) history. During the "Quiet Revolution" era of the 1960s and 1970s, government in Quebec basically became a "Style Czar", to use the article's terminology. Québécois language and culture was forced upon Montreal's sizable and established populations of English-speaking and non-Québécois residents via Loi 101 and other policies. Regardless of one's stance on the matter, the reality is that it was extremely disruptive to Montreal, socially and economically. Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, many residents and businesses ended up leaving Montreal, and moving to cities like Toronto, Calgary, and Vancouver. Toronto, Calgary, and Vancouver subsequently saw significant economic and social growth, while Montreal stagnated throughout the 1980s and 1990s, and even beyond then. Today, Montreal still has a rather fractured society in many ways. Maybe a "Style Czar" figure or mentality can bring a sense of consistency, but forcing it on existing and established communities will likely cause a whole new set of problems.

morkalork 3y ago

Those AI generated staircases make me sad. That's not at all what the city looks like!

fbernier 3y ago

As a montrealer, I was super curious about what the author would do of that analogy but turns out it was very, very bad.

adamgordonbell 3y ago

Author here. It wasn't meant to be a knock on Montreal. But on code bases that have very apparent different eras and styles. The idea actually came from Kate Gregory, in an interview I did with her some time ago, where she talked about some parts of any large C++ code base looking like Old Montreal and some looking like Art Deco or whatever other style. Edit: Yes, Montréal Effect seems better... changing.

jperras 3y ago
Lifelong Montréaler here. I think having "problem" in the title is what is ruffling feathers, although I'm not particularly bothered by it. That's perhaps where the analogy is strained the most: stylistic divergence in code can be problematic, but in architecture and urbanism it's typically seen as an asset. Perhaps calling it the "Montréal effect" would be more apropos?
- sevagh 3y ago
  It's just a low-value analogy. Wikipedia says there's 10,000 cities in the world. Montreal cannot possibly be the exemplar of whatever this post is trying to say.
ska 3y ago
I suspect part of the problem (and hence friction) is drawing an analogy to something that's actually a strength/net positive in Montréal as a city, but using it to claim a weakness/net negative in programming languages. Widely homogeneous cities are not necessarily failures, but it's hardly a indicator of somewhere that functions well (as a city).