4 ms·

I'm not sure that more regulation is the fix. There are users that want the higher speed and then there are users who are content with inexpensive access Even

by ufocia 3y ago

I'm not sure that more regulation is the fix. There are users that want the higher speed and then there are users who are content with inexpensive access Even if "slow". Most of the time the two don't go hand in hand.

blitzar 3y ago
> I'm not sure that more regulation is the fix. It worked for labels on stuff in the supermarket - you dont buy a pint of milk and get between a half pint and a full pint depending on what time of day it is.
- ufocia 3y ago
  Your right, one day you buy a pint of milk for $1, the next day $3, and on a third day the store is out of milk. Would you be happy with not having Internet access at times because someone else bought out committed bandwidth or having your Internet bill fluctuate based on a market rate?
  - traceroute66 3y ago
    > not having Internet access at times because someone else bought out committed bandwidth This argument does not hold up because large telcos like BT put their committed bandwidth customers on a wholly separate network to the consumers. So whatever Joe Blogs does at home/small-biz has no effect on the committed customer, and vice versa. Over-simplified tech summary: The home/small-biz connection will go back via an intermediary step at the nearest street cabinet or underground aggregation node. The committed customer will go direct back to the exchange via blown fibre/dedicated fibre pair.
    - ufocia 3y ago
      That's exactly my point. If you want committed bandwidth then pay for it. Now, if there is no option to pay for committed bandwidth, then you may have a legitimate gripe. I believe that the Internet providers are not fully transparent about network utilization, but the bulk of the consumers are also ignorant about what they're actually paying for. Let me put it another way. What the Internet providers are really selling you is an opportunity to fill a pint bottle from a common spigot. They are not selling you the milk. It's a bit like a ticket to an amusement park. You may get on your favorite ride right away, you may have to stand in line for hours or you may not get an opportunity to ride at all. Rent the ride for a private event and you'll be sure to ride it. Of course the amusement park could have timed entry for rides, but that's their business choice.
- traceroute66 3y ago
  > you dont buy a pint of milk and get between a half pint and a full pint depending on what time of day it is My point exactly ! How is it beneficial to the consumer to allow the telcos to market a product where they can perfectly legally only deliver half of the product at certain times of day. A 50% difference is just nuts. 10–20% difference, fine, we could argue that's the price you pay for the cheap service, but 50% ? That's just not on !
  - ufocia 3y ago
    You're right, they should be more transparent in their advertising, so should airlines telling you that you only have a x% chance of getting there on time because of seats being oversold. Though I'm guessing that if they didn't overcommit the bandwidth, your Internet costs would be much higher and the network utilization abysmally low. Network usage tends to be lumpy.
    - cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
      Australia’s advertising regulations now require advertising typical evening speeds. There are a handful of good ISPs that will (voluntarily) publicly publish backbone utilisation metrics so you can get a feel for contention. Australia’s Internet policy is far from perfect, but, again, Americans need only look basically anywhere else on Earth to see how things could be, instead of sitting around hypothesising.

by ufocia 3y ago

blitzar 3y ago

> I'm not sure that more regulation is the fix. It worked for labels on stuff in the supermarket - you dont buy a pint of milk and get between a half pint and a full pint depending on what time of day it is.

ufocia 3y ago
Your right, one day you buy a pint of milk for $1, the next day $3, and on a third day the store is out of milk. Would you be happy with not having Internet access at times because someone else bought out committed bandwidth or having your Internet bill fluctuate based on a market rate?
- traceroute66 3y ago
  > not having Internet access at times because someone else bought out committed bandwidth This argument does not hold up because large telcos like BT put their committed bandwidth customers on a wholly separate network to the consumers. So whatever Joe Blogs does at home/small-biz has no effect on the committed customer, and vice versa. Over-simplified tech summary: The home/small-biz connection will go back via an intermediary step at the nearest street cabinet or underground aggregation node. The committed customer will go direct back to the exchange via blown fibre/dedicated fibre pair.
  - ufocia 3y ago
    That's exactly my point. If you want committed bandwidth then pay for it. Now, if there is no option to pay for committed bandwidth, then you may have a legitimate gripe. I believe that the Internet providers are not fully transparent about network utilization, but the bulk of the consumers are also ignorant about what they're actually paying for. Let me put it another way. What the Internet providers are really selling you is an opportunity to fill a pint bottle from a common spigot. They are not selling you the milk. It's a bit like a ticket to an amusement park. You may get on your favorite ride right away, you may have to stand in line for hours or you may not get an opportunity to ride at all. Rent the ride for a private event and you'll be sure to ride it. Of course the amusement park could have timed entry for rides, but that's their business choice.
traceroute66 3y ago
> you dont buy a pint of milk and get between a half pint and a full pint depending on what time of day it is My point exactly ! How is it beneficial to the consumer to allow the telcos to market a product where they can perfectly legally only deliver half of the product at certain times of day. A 50% difference is just nuts. 10–20% difference, fine, we could argue that's the price you pay for the cheap service, but 50% ? That's just not on !
- ufocia 3y ago
  You're right, they should be more transparent in their advertising, so should airlines telling you that you only have a x% chance of getting there on time because of seats being oversold. Though I'm guessing that if they didn't overcommit the bandwidth, your Internet costs would be much higher and the network utilization abysmally low. Network usage tends to be lumpy.
  - cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
    Australia’s advertising regulations now require advertising typical evening speeds. There are a handful of good ISPs that will (voluntarily) publicly publish backbone utilisation metrics so you can get a feel for contention. Australia’s Internet policy is far from perfect, but, again, Americans need only look basically anywhere else on Earth to see how things could be, instead of sitting around hypothesising.