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A lot of the housing stock here is very poor quality, run-down and filled with ancient plumbing and electrics, no insulation, single glazed, draughty windows. F

A lot of the housing stock here is very poor quality, run-down and filled with ancient plumbing and electrics, no insulation, single glazed, draughty windows. For some reason British people are extremely attached to old buildings and favour "character" over comfort, warmth, light, efficient storage space, etc.

jl6 3y ago
It's not "character" that Britain is mainly attached to, it's greenbelts. Difficult to build -> undersupply -> high prices/rents -> low incentive to improve.
- toyg 3y ago
  I call bull on that. As the first country to industrialize, and arguably the first to de-industrialize too, Britain has massive amounts of brownfield ready to be used. The problem is just that developers have to pay to clean up those sites. You can simply look at the Houchen affair: as soon as the local authority foots the bill, developers will jump on the dirtiest stretch of brownfield, no questions asked.
  - jl6 3y ago
    > developers have to pay to clean up those sites i.e. more cost, which gets passed onto buyers/renters. Different entry point, same result. Plenty of brownfield sites do get redeveloped, particularly in city centers, but they don’t become affordable housing, they become trendy apartments with industrial heritage museums next door (and not enough of them). The population of Britain has increased nearly +10M in the 21st century, but the housing supply has lagged far, far behind.
    - toyg 3y ago
      I'm not denying there is a supply problem, what I don't agree with this that it'd be because of some silly obsession with protecting greenbelts. Protecting greenbelts is important, and there are alternative policies that can incentivize house-building without losing more green spaces. If there is one British obsession, is the expectation that every family should aspire to a semi-detached in the suburbs, with the result that (outside of London) developers only build small flats for singles and childless couples. The semi-detached model does not scale, while flats do. Developers should be forced to include larger flats in new builds, and councils should start thinking in terms of making town centres denser and more attractive to families.
      - jl6 3y ago
        Medium density cities would be great but if you have to force developers to do it, that means it will cost more, which gets passed on, etc. etc..
tpm 3y ago
I'm not sure it's about attachment, although the fact large residential areas of London are somehow 'protected' does not help. I'd guess it's mostly two things: * Landlords don't care their tennants pay too much for energy because there is no competitive pressure, the apartments will rent regardless. And many homes in London are rented. * The government does not care. The British society is very classist in my experience and the ruling class does not care the general public is freezing. So even while the UK was in the EU and the EU had various drives to improve energy efficiency of buildings, the UK mostly ignored them.
- jl6 3y ago
  England has always been run for the benefit of the landowning and homeowning class, in whom the greatest portion of political power, wealth and status are concentrated. This has been the case for at least 1000 years. This is not a "1%" thing; about half of all UK adults live in a home they own. For homeowners, the current setup is pretty sweet. And for a while, the number of homeowners was increasing, hitting an all-time high in 2003 - making it not too undemocratic that the country should be run for their benefit. But now with that figure reducing, mainly at the expense of younger people, it's not surprising that discontent is on the rise (particularly online, where the youngest are the most visible).
- cameronh90 3y ago
  Lots of people really do prefer the old awful buildings. There was a story just a couple of days ago [0] where residents are protesting having their windows upgraded, despite their existing windows being cold, draughty, rusty, and mouldy. One man felt so strongly about it that he said he'd electrocute anyone who tried to change his windows. They're concerned new slightly thicker window frames might destroy the character of their 60s water-stained concrete brutalist eyesore. [0] https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/yes-it-s-cold-but-you-can-t-replace-our-windows-at-iconi-303338/ https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/yes-it-s-cold-but-y...
  - maccard 3y ago
    There's nutters everywhere, to be fair.

jl6 3y ago

It's not "character" that Britain is mainly attached to, it's greenbelts. Difficult to build -> undersupply -> high prices/rents -> low incentive to improve.

toyg 3y ago
I call bull on that. As the first country to industrialize, and arguably the first to de-industrialize too, Britain has massive amounts of brownfield ready to be used. The problem is just that developers have to pay to clean up those sites. You can simply look at the Houchen affair: as soon as the local authority foots the bill, developers will jump on the dirtiest stretch of brownfield, no questions asked.
- jl6 3y ago
  > developers have to pay to clean up those sites i.e. more cost, which gets passed onto buyers/renters. Different entry point, same result. Plenty of brownfield sites do get redeveloped, particularly in city centers, but they don’t become affordable housing, they become trendy apartments with industrial heritage museums next door (and not enough of them). The population of Britain has increased nearly +10M in the 21st century, but the housing supply has lagged far, far behind.
  - toyg 3y ago
    I'm not denying there is a supply problem, what I don't agree with this that it'd be because of some silly obsession with protecting greenbelts. Protecting greenbelts is important, and there are alternative policies that can incentivize house-building without losing more green spaces. If there is one British obsession, is the expectation that every family should aspire to a semi-detached in the suburbs, with the result that (outside of London) developers only build small flats for singles and childless couples. The semi-detached model does not scale, while flats do. Developers should be forced to include larger flats in new builds, and councils should start thinking in terms of making town centres denser and more attractive to families.
    - jl6 3y ago
      Medium density cities would be great but if you have to force developers to do it, that means it will cost more, which gets passed on, etc. etc..

tpm 3y ago

I'm not sure it's about attachment, although the fact large residential areas of London are somehow 'protected' does not help. I'd guess it's mostly two things: * Landlords don't care their tennants pay too much for energy because there is no competitive pressure, the apartments will rent regardless. And many homes in London are rented. * The government does not care. The British society is very classist in my experience and the ruling class does not care the general public is freezing. So even while the UK was in the EU and the EU had various drives to improve energy efficiency of buildings, the UK mostly ignored them.

jl6 3y ago
England has always been run for the benefit of the landowning and homeowning class, in whom the greatest portion of political power, wealth and status are concentrated. This has been the case for at least 1000 years. This is not a "1%" thing; about half of all UK adults live in a home they own. For homeowners, the current setup is pretty sweet. And for a while, the number of homeowners was increasing, hitting an all-time high in 2003 - making it not too undemocratic that the country should be run for their benefit. But now with that figure reducing, mainly at the expense of younger people, it's not surprising that discontent is on the rise (particularly online, where the youngest are the most visible).
cameronh90 3y ago
Lots of people really do prefer the old awful buildings. There was a story just a couple of days ago [0] where residents are protesting having their windows upgraded, despite their existing windows being cold, draughty, rusty, and mouldy. One man felt so strongly about it that he said he'd electrocute anyone who tried to change his windows. They're concerned new slightly thicker window frames might destroy the character of their 60s water-stained concrete brutalist eyesore. [0] https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/yes-it-s-cold-but-you-can-t-replace-our-windows-at-iconi-303338/ https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/yes-it-s-cold-but-y...
- maccard 3y ago
  There's nutters everywhere, to be fair.