5 ms·

> In my head EDM & techno occupy the same space. That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general.

> In my head EDM & techno occupy the same space. That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Sometimes the line gets really blurry, sure, but 90% of the time it's pretty easy to know what you're listening to. The vibe is different, the tempo is different, the people that go to those places are different, pretty much everyone develops some sort of a very specific preference, and European countries kinda "specialize" based off of that. If you want techno, you go to Berlin. If you want grime, you go to London. If you're into house, you go to a beach in Croatia. I'd say the Netherlands are a bit all over the place, but what really sets them apart is hardstyle, which is pretty much not a thing anywhere else. And so on, and so on. That's not to say you can't find other things in those places, but they're always gonna be a bit more niche and you kinda have to know what you're looking for to find them.

randomopining 3y ago
Netherlands is top in Europe overall. Most Berlin people are migrating to Amsterdam.
- eythian 3y ago
  They must really love the music then, they sure as hell aren't moving for the better housing prices. I'm not at all in the Amsterdam EDM or hardstyle scene (just not my music), but I had indirectly got the feeling that it was slowly declining (ADE excepted), I could be quite wrong though, maybe they're just all in NDSM or something.
  - randomopining 3y ago
    ADE is wild. I don't think anything else compares.
- omnimus 3y ago
  Hardly. Amsterdam is comparatively small city = much smaller audience. You can se the stability of the scene in how often clubs close down. Just recently De School closed (now it should be reopen again under different management/name). Some of the Berlin clubs have been open and solid for 20 years.
  - randomopining 3y ago
    Did De School close because lack of interest? From what I've experienced (during ADE) and also heard, Amsterdam is very popular for all the techno sub-genres.
bnralt 3y ago
> That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Plenty of people are able to enjoy music without getting caught up in nomenclature. The idea that those people aren't real fans always feels very snobbish.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Pretty much everyone is a fan of music in general or some kind of music in particular. But I would counter that being able to name and differentiate a genre is a valid minimum standard to be a "real" fan of that genre. I also reckon that being a fan connotes something different from merely enjoying the sound when you happen to come across it. But I guess there's room for disagreement there.
  - bnralt 3y ago
    I highly disagree. I'm not going to say someone isn't a a true fan of Bach and Vivaldi because they refer to the music as "Classical" instead of "Baroque." Saying they "merely enjoying the sound when [they] happen to come across it" because they aren't interested in how other people have decided to name these things seems incredibly dismissive. Enjoying music is entirely unrelated to being interested in where other people have decided to artificially create divisions and the names they give to those divisions.
    - ehnto 3y ago
      I have had a hard time articulating this too. I really like trains, I travel to go ride them, but I don't sit on the internet researching trains in my spare time and I don't know thr minutae of the different train models. I just know what I experience, and love it when I do. When I tell this to normal people they think I'm a superfan, but I am not even in the same conversation as actual train fans. I doubt I could even hold a conversation about trains with a train fan. It is the same for music, and I have the benefit of having been both a superfan and now later just a regular person who loves the music. I have an in depth love for the music, and no one can take that from my heart. But I don't give a lick about genres anymore.
empath-nirvana 3y ago
You can find good techno in almost any large city because those DJs tour a lot. I don't think you're going to find something like Berghain in any other city, but if your city has any kind of underground scene at all, there's going to be good techno nights. Like I could go out tonight and see Loco Dice and Marco Carola in my city in the US. And don't assume that people in other cities don't get it. There's lots of underground clubs where people that go out are 100% into it for the music and "get it" and aren't just going for bottle service and VIP or whatever.
ehnto 3y ago
> That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Which is a hang up that they should work on, because we are all just trying to love the same thing. I agree with your descriptions of the distinctions mind you. Genres are important to find and discuss music you like, but it gets wrapped up in the ego of the listener, and that can get expressed negatively through elitism and gate keeping.

randomopining 3y ago

Netherlands is top in Europe overall. Most Berlin people are migrating to Amsterdam.

eythian 3y ago
They must really love the music then, they sure as hell aren't moving for the better housing prices. I'm not at all in the Amsterdam EDM or hardstyle scene (just not my music), but I had indirectly got the feeling that it was slowly declining (ADE excepted), I could be quite wrong though, maybe they're just all in NDSM or something.
- randomopining 3y ago
  ADE is wild. I don't think anything else compares.
omnimus 3y ago
Hardly. Amsterdam is comparatively small city = much smaller audience. You can se the stability of the scene in how often clubs close down. Just recently De School closed (now it should be reopen again under different management/name). Some of the Berlin clubs have been open and solid for 20 years.
- randomopining 3y ago
  Did De School close because lack of interest? From what I've experienced (during ADE) and also heard, Amsterdam is very popular for all the techno sub-genres.

bnralt 3y ago

> That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Plenty of people are able to enjoy music without getting caught up in nomenclature. The idea that those people aren't real fans always feels very snobbish.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
Pretty much everyone is a fan of music in general or some kind of music in particular. But I would counter that being able to name and differentiate a genre is a valid minimum standard to be a "real" fan of that genre. I also reckon that being a fan connotes something different from merely enjoying the sound when you happen to come across it. But I guess there's room for disagreement there.
- bnralt 3y ago
  I highly disagree. I'm not going to say someone isn't a a true fan of Bach and Vivaldi because they refer to the music as "Classical" instead of "Baroque." Saying they "merely enjoying the sound when [they] happen to come across it" because they aren't interested in how other people have decided to name these things seems incredibly dismissive. Enjoying music is entirely unrelated to being interested in where other people have decided to artificially create divisions and the names they give to those divisions.
  - ehnto 3y ago
    I have had a hard time articulating this too. I really like trains, I travel to go ride them, but I don't sit on the internet researching trains in my spare time and I don't know thr minutae of the different train models. I just know what I experience, and love it when I do. When I tell this to normal people they think I'm a superfan, but I am not even in the same conversation as actual train fans. I doubt I could even hold a conversation about trains with a train fan. It is the same for music, and I have the benefit of having been both a superfan and now later just a regular person who loves the music. I have an in depth love for the music, and no one can take that from my heart. But I don't give a lick about genres anymore.

empath-nirvana 3y ago

You can find good techno in almost any large city because those DJs tour a lot. I don't think you're going to find something like Berghain in any other city, but if your city has any kind of underground scene at all, there's going to be good techno nights. Like I could go out tonight and see Loco Dice and Marco Carola in my city in the US. And don't assume that people in other cities don't get it. There's lots of underground clubs where people that go out are 100% into it for the music and "get it" and aren't just going for bottle service and VIP or whatever.

ehnto 3y ago

> That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Which is a hang up that they should work on, because we are all just trying to love the same thing. I agree with your descriptions of the distinctions mind you. Genres are important to find and discuss music you like, but it gets wrapped up in the ego of the listener, and that can get expressed negatively through elitism and gate keeping.