3 ms·

This would seem to disprove the idea that COVID interventions caused the excess deaths, and support the idea that COVID was responsible. It also seems to indic

This would seem to disprove the idea that COVID interventions caused the excess deaths, and support the idea that COVID was responsible. It also seems to indicate that COVID interventions were effective at preventing excess deaths. By winter of 23 most of us were done with COVID restrictions and back to operating as if COVID were a bad memory.

t0bia_s 3y ago
Cause of deaths is not described. If vaccines works, why productive population still dies in high numbers during winters? Why elders are dying in same numbers?
- mapontosevenths 3y ago
  Based only on this there is insufficient evidence to say for certain. My guess is that the end of most COVID countermeasures caused people to die in larger numbers, especially the unvaccinated.
  - t0bia_s 3y ago
    Covid is not threat for healthy 15-44y individuals. Do we have overcrowded hospitals full of people hooked to oxygen? Did you recently hear about unexpected deaths, rapid cancers, increased suicides or myocarditis among productive generation?
    - stevenAthompson 3y ago
      Per the statistics cited above it doubled their risk of death. DOUBLED. I've also seen recent studies that indicated a serious drop in IQ, even among the otherwise young and healthy.[1] Both count as a serious threat to me. I am honestly not sure why you world disagree. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2311330 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2311330
      - t0bia_s 3y ago
        Per statistic in my country, there was 0.16% deaths to my age (mid 30's) with positive PCR test during death (not necessary mean it was cause of death, there was confirmed cases when cause of death was car crash). I personally don't know anyone, who was healthy and suddenly die because of covid and neither does anyone I ask. Most victims of covid have another comorbidities. However I know many people (7) injured (including my family) by vaccination and 2 dead. I consulted this anecdotal evidence with my doctor and he observed similar event on his patients (around 2000 people). - Both count as a serious threat to me. If people that you disagree with count serious threat for you, you should probably find serious help.
        mapontosevenths 3y ago
        > However I know many people (7) injured (including my family) by vaccination and 2 dead. I consulted this anecdotal evidence with my doctor and he observed similar event on his patients (around 2000 people). Here's the thing... I don't believe you. It's not personal, it's just that you are making claims that are contrary to the evidence and have nothing to back them except an anonymous anecdote on the internet. If deaths were occuring at that rate it would be devastating and obvious. Nobody could begin to hide it. What you describe are far worse outcomes than COVID itself, but we don't have enough corpses for it to have actually happened. Additionally the timing doesn't work out. As of March 2023 13 BILLION covid vaccine doses had been given. If it had the same mortality rate as COVID itself (39 per 100,000/ the vaccine would have killed an additional 5,070,000 people, but it didn't. There aren't that many dead, and that's ignoring the disabled completely. Sooo... If it did have side effects they were less dangerous than the disease itself. It's just math, and not even tough math. I believe that you believe it, and I can respect that it is important to you, but I prefer science and the consensus among scientists and doctors is that you are wildly off base. > If people that you disagree with count serious threat for you, you should probably find serious help. I think I didn't say that clearly. I was saying that the virus doubling the risk of death and making people stupid is a serious threat. That said, vaccine scepticism has killed a lot of people. So yes, it is a threat to all mankind.
        3y ago

t0bia_s 3y ago

Cause of deaths is not described. If vaccines works, why productive population still dies in high numbers during winters? Why elders are dying in same numbers?

mapontosevenths 3y ago
Based only on this there is insufficient evidence to say for certain. My guess is that the end of most COVID countermeasures caused people to die in larger numbers, especially the unvaccinated.
- t0bia_s 3y ago
  Covid is not threat for healthy 15-44y individuals. Do we have overcrowded hospitals full of people hooked to oxygen? Did you recently hear about unexpected deaths, rapid cancers, increased suicides or myocarditis among productive generation?
  - stevenAthompson 3y ago
    Per the statistics cited above it doubled their risk of death. DOUBLED. I've also seen recent studies that indicated a serious drop in IQ, even among the otherwise young and healthy.[1] Both count as a serious threat to me. I am honestly not sure why you world disagree. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2311330 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2311330
    - t0bia_s 3y ago
      Per statistic in my country, there was 0.16% deaths to my age (mid 30's) with positive PCR test during death (not necessary mean it was cause of death, there was confirmed cases when cause of death was car crash). I personally don't know anyone, who was healthy and suddenly die because of covid and neither does anyone I ask. Most victims of covid have another comorbidities. However I know many people (7) injured (including my family) by vaccination and 2 dead. I consulted this anecdotal evidence with my doctor and he observed similar event on his patients (around 2000 people). - Both count as a serious threat to me. If people that you disagree with count serious threat for you, you should probably find serious help.
      - mapontosevenths 3y ago
        > However I know many people (7) injured (including my family) by vaccination and 2 dead. I consulted this anecdotal evidence with my doctor and he observed similar event on his patients (around 2000 people). Here's the thing... I don't believe you. It's not personal, it's just that you are making claims that are contrary to the evidence and have nothing to back them except an anonymous anecdote on the internet. If deaths were occuring at that rate it would be devastating and obvious. Nobody could begin to hide it. What you describe are far worse outcomes than COVID itself, but we don't have enough corpses for it to have actually happened. Additionally the timing doesn't work out. As of March 2023 13 BILLION covid vaccine doses had been given. If it had the same mortality rate as COVID itself (39 per 100,000/ the vaccine would have killed an additional 5,070,000 people, but it didn't. There aren't that many dead, and that's ignoring the disabled completely. Sooo... If it did have side effects they were less dangerous than the disease itself. It's just math, and not even tough math. I believe that you believe it, and I can respect that it is important to you, but I prefer science and the consensus among scientists and doctors is that you are wildly off base. > If people that you disagree with count serious threat for you, you should probably find serious help. I think I didn't say that clearly. I was saying that the virus doubling the risk of death and making people stupid is a serious threat. That said, vaccine scepticism has killed a lot of people. So yes, it is a threat to all mankind.
        3y ago