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What is "ultra-processed"? Last night I cooked Beef Stroganoff from scratch (well, I used supermarket soured cream, so not completely from scratch). I added sal

What is "ultra-processed"? Last night I cooked Beef Stroganoff from scratch (well, I used supermarket soured cream, so not completely from scratch). I added salt, flavourings (herbs, mustard, brandy), and fat (butter). As far as I can tell, that kind of home cooking matches the definition of "ultra-processed". I believe a slice of bread can count as ultra-processed. It's really not a useful designation, and I think it's unfortunate that the UN has adopted it as a battle-cry.

aaron695 3y ago
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MikusR 3y ago
Based on that nova definition, handmade extruded pasta colored with beet juice is an ultra processed food.
- snakeyjake 3y ago
  It is not. Both pasta and beet juice are group 1 unprocessed foods. Combining group 1 foods does not create a group 4 food. WHERE IS ALL OF THIS COMING FROM? Is there some kind of food lobby front organization flooding social media with "your freshly baked bread is ultraprocessed according to GUBMINT NERDS" in order to defang the word? Here is a good definition of ultra-processed: >Ultra-processed foods are industrial formulations made entirely or mostly from substances extracted from foods (oils, fats, sugar, starch, and proteins), derived from food constituents (hydrogenated fats and modified starch), or synthesized in laboratories from food substrates or other organic sources (flavor enhancers, colors, and several food additives used to make the product hyper-palatable). Manufacturing techniques include extrusion, moulding and preprocessing by frying. Beverages may be ultra-processed. Group 1 foods are a small proportion of, or are even absent from, ultra-processed products.
  - MikusR 3y ago
    From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification "The manufacturing processes for ultra-processed foods typically involve techniques such as extrusion" "along with the addition of various cosmetic additives, including those for ... colour."
    - snakeyjake 3y ago
      Juicing isn’t extrusion.
      - MikusR 3y ago
        But using extrusion pasta maker is. And beet juice is being used as cosmetic additive for color.
snakeyjake 3y ago
Ultra-processed is very well defined and easy for even a layperson to understand. Under the NOVA classification system there are 4 groups of food, from 1 to 4, with 1 being unprocessed and 4 being ultra-processed. https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78... >As far as I can tell, that kind of home cooking matches the definition of "ultra-processed". It does not, except for the brandy. Distillation is by definition ultra-processing. However, adding a minute amount of brandy, or even a generous amount, does not instantly turn something into an ultra-processed nightmare especially if the ethanol evaporates and all you're left with are flavorings. The bread may be ultra-processed if it includes high-fructose corn syrup or other mechanically/chemically-extracted ingredients, otherwise it is simply group 3 processed foods.
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  > other mechanically/chemically-extracted ingredients Kneading dough to make the gluten elastic looks to me like mechanical processing. And the use of microbes (yeasts and lactobacteria) to transform sugars and starches into simpler chemicals looks like chemical processing. HFCS is made by what is essentially a single-step process: corn starch is treated with sulphuric acid to produce simple sugars. I don't happen to want to eat HFCS, but the stuff isn't so different from malt. Part of my objection to this designation is the "ultra-" bit; "ultra-processed" means something like "beyond processed". The term is literally hype; "hyper-processed" would mean the same, but isn't used because it makes it obvious that something is being exaggerated.
  - snakeyjake 3y ago
    Kneading, even with a mechanical dough kneader, isn’t extraction. Anything you can do with your hands isn’t extraction. Can you separate fructose from corn kernels in your kitchen with your two bare hands and without molecular membranes, high pressure apparatus, and high temperature enzymes? Be reasonable. People can and have made integrated circuits in their garage. REASONABLE persons do not consider it a common task performed by normal people.

aaron695 3y ago

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MikusR 3y ago

Based on that nova definition, handmade extruded pasta colored with beet juice is an ultra processed food.

snakeyjake 3y ago
It is not. Both pasta and beet juice are group 1 unprocessed foods. Combining group 1 foods does not create a group 4 food. WHERE IS ALL OF THIS COMING FROM? Is there some kind of food lobby front organization flooding social media with "your freshly baked bread is ultraprocessed according to GUBMINT NERDS" in order to defang the word? Here is a good definition of ultra-processed: >Ultra-processed foods are industrial formulations made entirely or mostly from substances extracted from foods (oils, fats, sugar, starch, and proteins), derived from food constituents (hydrogenated fats and modified starch), or synthesized in laboratories from food substrates or other organic sources (flavor enhancers, colors, and several food additives used to make the product hyper-palatable). Manufacturing techniques include extrusion, moulding and preprocessing by frying. Beverages may be ultra-processed. Group 1 foods are a small proportion of, or are even absent from, ultra-processed products.
- MikusR 3y ago
  From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification "The manufacturing processes for ultra-processed foods typically involve techniques such as extrusion" "along with the addition of various cosmetic additives, including those for ... colour."
  - snakeyjake 3y ago
    Juicing isn’t extrusion.
    - MikusR 3y ago
      But using extrusion pasta maker is. And beet juice is being used as cosmetic additive for color.

snakeyjake 3y ago

Ultra-processed is very well defined and easy for even a layperson to understand. Under the NOVA classification system there are 4 groups of food, from 1 to 4, with 1 being unprocessed and 4 being ultra-processed. https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78... >As far as I can tell, that kind of home cooking matches the definition of "ultra-processed". It does not, except for the brandy. Distillation is by definition ultra-processing. However, adding a minute amount of brandy, or even a generous amount, does not instantly turn something into an ultra-processed nightmare especially if the ethanol evaporates and all you're left with are flavorings. The bread may be ultra-processed if it includes high-fructose corn syrup or other mechanically/chemically-extracted ingredients, otherwise it is simply group 3 processed foods.

denton-scratch 3y ago
> other mechanically/chemically-extracted ingredients Kneading dough to make the gluten elastic looks to me like mechanical processing. And the use of microbes (yeasts and lactobacteria) to transform sugars and starches into simpler chemicals looks like chemical processing. HFCS is made by what is essentially a single-step process: corn starch is treated with sulphuric acid to produce simple sugars. I don't happen to want to eat HFCS, but the stuff isn't so different from malt. Part of my objection to this designation is the "ultra-" bit; "ultra-processed" means something like "beyond processed". The term is literally hype; "hyper-processed" would mean the same, but isn't used because it makes it obvious that something is being exaggerated.
- snakeyjake 3y ago
  Kneading, even with a mechanical dough kneader, isn’t extraction. Anything you can do with your hands isn’t extraction. Can you separate fructose from corn kernels in your kitchen with your two bare hands and without molecular membranes, high pressure apparatus, and high temperature enzymes? Be reasonable. People can and have made integrated circuits in their garage. REASONABLE persons do not consider it a common task performed by normal people.