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Here is a video of that switch in operation: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vvlDYAPs3X0 https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vvlDYAPs3X0 To me, this seems entirely

by lqet 3y ago

Here is a video of that switch in operation: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vvlDYAPs3X0 https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vvlDYAPs3X0 To me, this seems entirely plausible, even if the movement is relatively slow. Do pilots have their lunch tray on their lap (between the stomach and the controls) when they eat? Maybe the pilot asked the flight attendant to move the seat back so that they could eat comfortably (as they obviously cannot reach that control themselves), and it was moved in the wrong direction accidentally?

KineticLensman 3y ago
Not commenting on this specific case, but it is possible for things held (or not) by pilots to affect the controls. An RAF Voyager (strategic lift aircraft based on the A330) dived 4000ft because the pilot was using a personal camera throughout the flight and it got stuck between his seat and the joystick, and his failure to admit it caused an accident investigation that temporarily grounded the entire fleet [0], [1]. [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/revealed-raf-jet-made-terrifying-4-400ft-plunge-after-camera-became-lodged-next-to-joystick-9208540.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/revealed-raf... [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39153163 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39153163
- wkat4242 3y ago
  It's also happened to me once that something was dropped and got wedged behind the rudder pedal, blocking its movement. Tiny GA aircraft and we noticed it during the start-up check (when you check the full range of the flight controls). The checklist did its job. But if it had dropped during flight it could have been really dangerous. I can imagine it can happen even in more professional circles.
  - HPsquared 3y ago
    I wonder if the controls could be designed to resist this kind of thing. Only becoming more common with everyone having bulky phones etc in pockets. Maybe they could design rudder pedals without "pinch points" for objects to fall into, and yoke/stick without any potential pinch points nearby.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      True, good point. But it's very very hard to do that on an aircraft because space is at a huge premium. You simply don't have infinite space around the pedals. Or other controls for that matter. For example a clipboard could fall on the center pedestal and flip one of the gazillion switches. Luckily most important ones have barriers around them, or other safeguards like the need to lift up the lever before moving it.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  A firefighting helo and crew was lost due to an iPad: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P0N15ihORHA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P0N15ihORHA
- throw0101b 3y ago
  > Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) have demonstrated that an Apple iPad likely jammed against the co-pilot’s left pedal prior to the fatal crash of a Rotak Helicopter Services Chinook in Idaho last year. * https://verticalmag.com/news/dropped-ipad-implicated-in-fatal-chinook-helicopter-crash/ https://verticalmag.com/news/dropped-ipad-implicated-in-fata... * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36724736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36724736
danbruc 3y ago
That switch almost seems to be made for being pressed accidentally - pretty big and seemingly easy to accidentally run into. I guess the big part behind the headrest is the mentioned cover and should be down with a pilot in the seat making the switch inaccessible? And I guess this button is required to get in and out of the seat and that is why they made it so big and easy to access? EDIT: Better video [1], that switch is not easy to press, I completely misinterpreted the video. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9VkV9RS-PI&t=45s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9VkV9RS-PI&t=45s
- boloust 3y ago
  What you're looking at in the video isn't actually the switch, it's the switch cover. Behind the cover is a rocker switch that moves the seat, but it's not visible in this video. It's extremely unlikely just "running into it" was the issue, but accidentally moving the seat in the wrong direction is somewhat plausible, especially if the cover is obscuring the switch.
  - danbruc 3y ago
    You are right, just found a better video [1]. I did not realize that the person was moving their fingers under the cover. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9VkV9RS-PI&t=45s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9VkV9RS-PI&t=45s
- iamflimflam1 3y ago
  Reminds me of the far size "Wings fall off" cartoon.
stavros 3y ago
I don't understand what the purpose of a switch that someone else, but not the person sitting in the seat can operate is?
- danbruc 3y ago
  I would guess that it might be necessary to move the empty seat forward to access things that would otherwise be blocked by the retracted seat. That also means you have to be able to get it back later and this might also be needed if you have to pull an incapacitated pilot out of his seat. There probably has to be another switch for the pilot to move the seat forward, it would seem quite cumbersome to use that one for getting into and out of the seat.
  - stavros 3y ago
    Maybe, I don't know what controls you'd want someone to be accessing without being in the seat. For retraction, definitely, but that sounds like a "pull this seat all the way back" switch would be better, rather than one that controls the precise position.
    - icegreentea2 3y ago
      The seat probably uses the exact same mechanism for both the seat back switch and the operate when seated switch. This type of mechanism is probably also considered safer. A mechanism where you momentary push a button and then it "pulls back all the way" would probably warrant extra consideration for having something stuck in the rails or bumping into someone. I could see these two factors weighing into someone's decision to just use this design.
- HekeHakkeri 3y ago
  There's probably a second switch you can operate while seated.
- beej71 3y ago
  Blancolirio, a YouTube airline pilot, talked about this on his channel. If you're the pilot trying to get into the seat, you'd normally have to reach for the regular seat controls which are farther forward and kind of awkward to reach from behind. But with this switch you can draw the seat all the way back so that you can climb into it easily.
beej71 3y ago
Blancolirio, a YouTube Boeing pilot, said that yes, they ate with their food tray on their lap. He added, somewhat enviously it seemed to me, that Airbus pilots get a tray table due to their controls being off to the side.

by lqet 3y ago

KineticLensman 3y ago

Not commenting on this specific case, but it is possible for things held (or not) by pilots to affect the controls. An RAF Voyager (strategic lift aircraft based on the A330) dived 4000ft because the pilot was using a personal camera throughout the flight and it got stuck between his seat and the joystick, and his failure to admit it caused an accident investigation that temporarily grounded the entire fleet [0], [1]. [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/revealed-raf-jet-made-terrifying-4-400ft-plunge-after-camera-became-lodged-next-to-joystick-9208540.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/revealed-raf... [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39153163 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39153163

wkat4242 3y ago
It's also happened to me once that something was dropped and got wedged behind the rudder pedal, blocking its movement. Tiny GA aircraft and we noticed it during the start-up check (when you check the full range of the flight controls). The checklist did its job. But if it had dropped during flight it could have been really dangerous. I can imagine it can happen even in more professional circles.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  I wonder if the controls could be designed to resist this kind of thing. Only becoming more common with everyone having bulky phones etc in pockets. Maybe they could design rudder pedals without "pinch points" for objects to fall into, and yoke/stick without any potential pinch points nearby.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    True, good point. But it's very very hard to do that on an aircraft because space is at a huge premium. You simply don't have infinite space around the pedals. Or other controls for that matter. For example a clipboard could fall on the center pedestal and flip one of the gazillion switches. Luckily most important ones have barriers around them, or other safeguards like the need to lift up the lever before moving it.
sokoloff 3y ago
A firefighting helo and crew was lost due to an iPad: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P0N15ihORHA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P0N15ihORHA
throw0101b 3y ago
> Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) have demonstrated that an Apple iPad likely jammed against the co-pilot’s left pedal prior to the fatal crash of a Rotak Helicopter Services Chinook in Idaho last year. * https://verticalmag.com/news/dropped-ipad-implicated-in-fatal-chinook-helicopter-crash/ https://verticalmag.com/news/dropped-ipad-implicated-in-fata... * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36724736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36724736

danbruc 3y ago

That switch almost seems to be made for being pressed accidentally - pretty big and seemingly easy to accidentally run into. I guess the big part behind the headrest is the mentioned cover and should be down with a pilot in the seat making the switch inaccessible? And I guess this button is required to get in and out of the seat and that is why they made it so big and easy to access? EDIT: Better video [1], that switch is not easy to press, I completely misinterpreted the video. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9VkV9RS-PI&t=45s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9VkV9RS-PI&t=45s

boloust 3y ago
What you're looking at in the video isn't actually the switch, it's the switch cover. Behind the cover is a rocker switch that moves the seat, but it's not visible in this video. It's extremely unlikely just "running into it" was the issue, but accidentally moving the seat in the wrong direction is somewhat plausible, especially if the cover is obscuring the switch.
- danbruc 3y ago
  You are right, just found a better video [1]. I did not realize that the person was moving their fingers under the cover. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9VkV9RS-PI&t=45s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9VkV9RS-PI&t=45s
iamflimflam1 3y ago
Reminds me of the far size "Wings fall off" cartoon.

stavros 3y ago

I don't understand what the purpose of a switch that someone else, but not the person sitting in the seat can operate is?

danbruc 3y ago
I would guess that it might be necessary to move the empty seat forward to access things that would otherwise be blocked by the retracted seat. That also means you have to be able to get it back later and this might also be needed if you have to pull an incapacitated pilot out of his seat. There probably has to be another switch for the pilot to move the seat forward, it would seem quite cumbersome to use that one for getting into and out of the seat.
- stavros 3y ago
  Maybe, I don't know what controls you'd want someone to be accessing without being in the seat. For retraction, definitely, but that sounds like a "pull this seat all the way back" switch would be better, rather than one that controls the precise position.
  - icegreentea2 3y ago
    The seat probably uses the exact same mechanism for both the seat back switch and the operate when seated switch. This type of mechanism is probably also considered safer. A mechanism where you momentary push a button and then it "pulls back all the way" would probably warrant extra consideration for having something stuck in the rails or bumping into someone. I could see these two factors weighing into someone's decision to just use this design.
HekeHakkeri 3y ago
There's probably a second switch you can operate while seated.
beej71 3y ago
Blancolirio, a YouTube airline pilot, talked about this on his channel. If you're the pilot trying to get into the seat, you'd normally have to reach for the regular seat controls which are farther forward and kind of awkward to reach from behind. But with this switch you can draw the seat all the way back so that you can climb into it easily.

beej71 3y ago

Blancolirio, a YouTube Boeing pilot, said that yes, they ate with their food tray on their lap. He added, somewhat enviously it seemed to me, that Airbus pilots get a tray table due to their controls being off to the side.