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Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list
- world2vec 3y agoGoing on a cultural trip to Berlin this next May, with some of my best friends. What are your most favourite underrated techno clubs in Berlin? I've been to the big ones already, keen to explore the fringe places.
- input_sh 3y agoSisiphos (temporarily closed right now I believe, not sure if that'll be the case by May), Renate, Birgit, Ritter Butzke.
- piva00 3y agoThose are not really underrated or underground these days though, they are some of the mainstays of clubs in Berlin. I don't think even Golden Gate nor ://about:blank would be considered truly "underground" anymore. As usual with the underground stuff you need to dig deeper to find them, as I don't live in Berlin I need to rely on my local friends to take me to these places as they are inserted within the underground culture.
- ciex 3y agoYes, please dont post about any unpromoted venues on hacker news!
- wheels 3y agoThose are probably all listed in Lonely Planet at this point. Renate and Butkze had stints as scene clubs, but that was like 15 years ago when they were illegal. Sisphyos still has some scene-y-ness, but is a mix of tourists and locals. It only managed to stay off the radar for a couple years when it was only an outdoor location. But it's so big that it can absorb the crowds better. Birgit, on the other hand, was purpose-built for tourists. I actually like going to the biergarten there since it's right around the corner from where I live, and have played there a couple times, but it's unabashadly a club built to look like Berlin clubs except be more accessible for tourists. There was never a point that it was a scene spot.
- huseyinkeles 3y agoI enjoyed Zur Klappe when I visited Berlin pre-pandemic times. It's literally underground and used to be a public toilet. And it's very close to the famous Mustafa's Gemuse Kebab, so you can try that afterwards.
- dewey 3y ago> And it's very close to the famous Mustafa's Gemuse Kebab, so you can try that afterwards. I'd skip the tourist queue and go to any other random places you find on the way instead.
- menor 3y agoAgree, Mustafa's queue is not worth it
- pantalaimon 3y agoJust don’t queue an hour at Mustafa's - it’s good Kebap, but it’s not that extraordinary. Rüya(m), Superhahn or Servet's make the same style of Gemüsekebap and are just as good.
- treprinum 3y agoWhy go to Germany to get a Turkish meal? Any kebab in Istanbul is going to be better than whatever is available in Berlin. Better get some Schweinshaxe mit Sauerkraut...
- Barrin92 3y agoOkay I am German and I can tell you I don't know anyone who prefers Schweinshaxe to a good döner kebab. Which by the way, funnily enough, was invented in Germany by Kadir Nurman, a Berliner! It's basically our national dish at this point and we're arguably better off for it. Our more traditional cuisine is... not so great.
- Towaway69 3y agoIIRC Döner Kebab Was invented in Berlin... > The modern sandwich variant of döner kebab originated and was popularized in 1970s West Berlin by Turkish immigrants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doner_kebab https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doner_kebab
- te_chris 3y agoCheck RA for lineups and go based on that.
- WitCanStain 3y agoIt's not everyone's cup of tea but Kit Kat is an experience you won't find in many other places.
- mahmoudhossam 3y agoDisclaimer: I live in Berlin currently but I've never been a techno person. From what I hear from people who are, the clubs have become basically tourist traps that are unaffordable to locals and some have even been priced out of their original locations so not sure if this decision will help much.
- piva00 3y agoThey got much more expensive after the pandemic, in 2019 an expensive entrance was 18-20€, after it seems that some clubs are up to the 20-30€. I remember in 2015 paying 10-15€, even Berghain would be around 15-18€ and that was expensive already. The techno scene is still pretty good music-wise if you check the line-up and avoid the new fad of celebrity DJs from the past 8-10ish years. I'm very fond of my early techno days where you could barely see the DJ from the dancefloor, they would be spinning in the shadows and the focus was dancing (this in the early 2000s so not an OG at all to the scene from the 90s, and not in Berlin).
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- te_chris 3y agoBerghain's door policy mostly still works: keeps the American tourists out and the club good times. It's starting to feel a bit dated in general, like the moment's moving past it, but it's always a good time.
- piva00 3y agoI agree, as ruthless as the door policy is every single time I've been there I had a good time, the crowd inside knew what they were there for and what the scene is about. To me personally since the big room/celebrity techno DJs took more space in the scene it has become much harder to find dancefloors like Berghain. I'm still sad for De School closing in Amsterdam, it was a very different place than Berghain but the crowd and dancefloors were very enjoyable.
- larodi 3y agoAccording to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thanks to very active promoter teams, leads to Lyon, Prague, Zagreb, Thessaloniki and even Sofia.
- carlmr 3y ago>Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. It's funny how the (somewhat leftist) techno scene hates on foreigners destroying their tradition. Berlin and Bavaria aren't so far apart after all.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- cookiemonsieur 3y agoWhich is immensely ironic considering that modern house and techno is an invention of African Americans in Chicago. We've truly come full circle. The same thing is being done to hiphop in a similar way.
- piva00 3y agoJust to be a bit pedantic: techno didn't come from Chicago but from Detroit :)
- cookiemonsieur 3y agoMy bad. But the point stands. Complaining about a cultural movement that they have almost entirely gentrified is massively ironic.
- 3y ago
- jen729w 3y agoAny Australians here who were there for Melbourne’s ‘dirty electro’ scene through the 00s-10s? I feel very privileged to have lived my 30s through that time. Public Office in West Melbourne. The Lounge! Oh my god the Lounge on Swanston. E55 at the bottom end of Elizabeth. And let’s never forget Revolver, not that it needs forgetting as it’s still going. Everyone in that scene was there for the music. We all danced, we all enjoyed each other, we went home together, we bonded over ciggies on the balcony, we stayed up all night, we shared everything. It was epic. I’m 47 now. I have no mid-life crisis, and I put it down to living in Melbourne through my 30s. A spectacular little bubble in human history. x
- defrost 3y ago"I'm too old for that shit" ~ Lethal Weapon. However .. I was there for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yyUO93JpEw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yyUO93JpEw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Band_scene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Band_scene and later made it to Berlin to being working tech crew for Wim Wenders Wings of Desire when the scene with Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds was shot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPf6SWcENWo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPf6SWcENWo Two decades seems excessive, I was there for the shortest no-wave ever(?) The Immaculate Consumptive in the time of Scraping Foetus Off the Wheel. Melbourne's always seemed to have several layers of music scene on the go at any one time, for better or worse many of the acts travel onwards and outwards, some returning to base camp.
- _kb 3y agoMy time in Melbourne was after that, but Revs was still a beautiful place. So many great memories, and some hazy ones.
- pastor_bob 3y agoNot Australian but I wanted to say thanks for all the vids of the melbourne shuffle that came out around that period. Very entertaining for an american teenager
- jen729w 3y agoMy friends call me ‘Johnny two-step’ to this day.
- treprinum 3y agoOK, how are they going to preserve it? Where can I visit 1999 Berlin techno scene and experience the rave?
- yakshaving_jgt 3y agoFortunately, Odessa in Ukraine is also under the protection of UNESCO. When the russians hit Odessa with missiles today, only 14 people died. Thanks UNESCO!
- low_tech_love 3y agoThe scene has thrived greatly under the watchful eye of the Techno Viking.
- smudgy 3y agoNot gonna lie, this is awesome. Cybergoth Dance Party and Techno Viking are now even more important parts of our collective human heritage. Edit: It seems Cybergoth Dance Party was shot in Dusseldorf, my life is now even more full of lies.
- te_chris 3y agoThis is great, though it's hard to ignore that there's a bit of techno-industrial-complex going on there. Still, there's a proper industry for electronic music, nice people, good clubs, good music, good record stores and that sense of freedom that comes with long opening hours - not just in the clubs. One of my favourite things about Berlin is just sitting in a bar with friends till you're done for the night, no pressure to move on - often this can drag till 4 in the morning, but it doesn't feel laboured.
- helboi4 3y agoBars in Berlin are so much more relaxing and enjoyable than in many other places fr
- nemo44x 3y agoIt’s like they’re going out of their way to make it uncool.
- HKH2 3y agoWon't that help preserve it?
- jamil7 3y agoHow exactly does the city and federal Government square this with their plan to build a huge (unwanted) freeway through the city and bulldoze multiple clubs and music venues?
- ryukafalz 3y agoI just looked this up because I was surprised to hear about this. Context for those unfamiliar: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-07/berlin-plans-a100-autobahn-link-to-the-former-east-despite-local-opposition https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-07/berlin-pl... This is the kind of mistake that we made in the US decades ago, and the results are plain to see today in any neighborhood bisected by a freeway.
- aketchum 3y agoatlanta is trying to fix this by building a park over the interstate in the city center. Only tangentially related but it blows me away how ambitious the project is. The stated goal is for reconnecting communities on either side
- ryukafalz 3y agoPhiladelphia too: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/pennsylvania/articles/2024-03-11/philadelphias-chinatown-to-be-reconnected-by-building-a-park-over-a-highway https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/pennsylvania/article... It's a much-needed change, the side of Philly's Chinatown to the north of the freeway is clearly suffering compared to the south side. It's such a stark difference.
- wolverine876 3y agoIt's a widely recognized problem in the US - they built the highways through the politically marginalized communities. The Biden administration has a program to repair some of that, and I wonder if that's where Atlanta is getting funding.
- immibis 3y ago
- morkalork 3y agoEvery DJ and producer that goes to Berlin to do a "residency" comes back sounding the same and I hate it.
- dopamean 3y agocouldn't agree more.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bowsamic 3y agoHardwax.com still has the great picks, I definitely recommend looking there if you want great Berlin techno (and ambient, electro, etc.) that doesn't sound like the stale genre "Berlin techno"
- afro88 3y agoSimilar effect when they do a residency in Ibiza back in the 2000s and 2010s
- dopamean 3y agoI wish Detroit had the marketing that Berlin does.
- LAC-Tech 3y agoYeah I associate techno a lot more with Detroit than Berlin. Detroit in Effect, Jeff Mills, Plastikman...
- samatman 3y agoIt's only Techno if it's from the Rust Belt region of Southeastern Michigan. Otherwise you have to call it sparkling EDM.
- qgin 3y agoI haven’t been to Detroit or Berlin. Is the difference really just marketing or are there other differences?
- technotarek 3y agoWe need an acknowledgment of the past, the origins, which may no longer be present. Detroit starting in the ‘80s and into the 90s would be the prime example. I wrote a short essay about the latter : https://technotarek.com/shows/richie-hawtin https://technotarek.com/shows/richie-hawtin
- _bohm 3y agoIn the US it seems there's still a decent appetite to connect to the history of the genre. Carl Craig, Kevin Saunderson, Juan Atkins, Jeff Mills, etc. still tour regularly. In NYC, DJ Assault is currently holding a residency at Market Hotel. Nowadays has been running a series of "Foundations Nights" where they book a group of DJs representing the lineage of a particular style, which have been great. The Dweller festival has also been running for a few years which is a wonderful initiative (the name paying homage to Drexciya). I agree that it's worth considering why Berlin has been chosen without acknowledgement to its roots (no shade to Berlin, I love that city and much of the music it has produced). I enjoyed reading you essay. Coincidentally, U Street Music Hall was one of the venues that shaped my teenage years and served as my gateway into the electronic music scene.
- randomopining 3y agoIt's pervasive in Berlin from what I see, understand, and have read about the 90's. Realistically it's not a pervasive fabric of even a place like Detroit. Most people in Detroit don't even know that techno is "from" there.
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoAnother recent addition from 2021 close to HN's heart: Demoscene https://www.unesco.de/en/culture-and-nature/intangible-cultural-heritage/demoscene-culture-digital-real-time-animations https://www.unesco.de/en/culture-and-nature/intangible-cultu...
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoEntry on the German UNESCO site: https://www.unesco.de/kultur-und-natur/immaterielles-kulturerbe/immaterielles-kulturerbe-deutschland/bundesweites-3 https://www.unesco.de/kultur-und-natur/immaterielles-kulture...
- bowsamic 3y agoNot enough mention of LGBT, especially gay male, scenes, which are the foundation of German techno. Until very recently, Berghain was a gay club that plays techno, not a techno club that supports gay people. Many Berlin clubs are still gay orgies, including the ocassional basement show in Berghain, but more famously kitkat club. I agree the scene is "dying" though, simply because Berlin is very different than it was 20 or 30 years ago. Robert Henke (Monolake) talks about this: after the wall collapsed, the factories in east Berlin were abandoned, and west Berlin were happily giving permission and even some money to any student who wanted to open an "artistic space" in one of the old factories. So it was easy, you had a very industrial space, you brought some speakers and some beer along, and suddenly you had a club. This is basically a very rare cultural moment: large amounts of unused industrial space being given away to anyone who wants to party. Berlin is, of course, nothing like this now.
- helloplanets 3y ago"Der Klang der Familie: Berlin, Techno and the Fall of the Wall" [0] is a good book on the origins of the Berlin Techno scene. It's based on interviews and discussions by the people originally setting up the whole thing, making it a pretty breezy read that you don't necessarily have to go through chronologically. No city can really replicate the absurd situation Berlin was in after the second world war. The absolute oppressive atmosphere, with one day the whole city getting flipped upside down. Anyone being able to take over a building on the East side and throw a party there. When before you could end up in a cell overnight for playing a boombox too loud on the street. The original location for Tresor (club) was the literal translation of the German word: A big old safe in a bank. That you had to climb down a ladder to get to. An unexpected connection of cities is between Berlin and Detroit: Underground Resistance (a group of Detroit born Techno producers) among many others playing gigs in Tresor going back to the early nineties. [0]: https://www.amazon.com/Klang-Familie-Felix-Denk/dp/3738604294 https://www.amazon.com/Klang-Familie-Felix-Denk/dp/373860429...
- hackandthink 3y agoCan't remember climbing a ladder down to get into Tresor. The ladder was into the cellar of the Fischbüro location somewhere in Kreuzberg 36. (these guys started Tresor later) (Eimer (Bucket) was a really bad location several years later, you wouldn't have been able to get out of the basement if ...)
- wizerdrobe 3y agoWhat exactly is Kreuzberg 36? I always assumed that was a street number after hearing an old Smut Peddlers song. https://genius.com/Smut-peddlers-kreuzberg-36-lyrics https://genius.com/Smut-peddlers-kreuzberg-36-lyrics
- luplex 3y agoKreuzberg is a borough in Berlin with 150k inhabitants, and it used to be divided into two postcodes: 36 and 61. 36 is the cooler, poorer, more political, younger half of the borough, it really was a center for non-conformists after reunification, but it's being gentrified these days.
- t_mann 3y agoThe museum-ification of Europe continues unabated. I can't get into the mind of the people who thought that this award was a good idea, much less anyone who'd feel happy about receiving it (it's usually not the 'real' locals anyway, but people who are close enough to feel some connection but far enough to not be exposed to the reality; or people with financial interests).
- wolverine876 3y agoThat's similar to my initial response. The museum treatment is the end for any artform, IMHO; it's petrification. Did rock'n'roll grow and move and thrive after its Hall of Fame opened? I suppose there was grunge. It freezes the artform in a certain state (and by who and how is that state chosen?) and defines it that way for eternity. That's death - growth and change are ended; like the dearly departed it's defined by memories of it, not who it will be today or tomorrow; it's no longer doing something new that will surprise you or make you uncomfortable; it's sometimes reenacted by people who try to represent it, who miss the point of art - to express something of your own.
- immibis 3y agoThis is not a museum. It doesn't prevent new things from happening or old things from closing down, although it may provide some legal weight to prevent them from being forced to close down or not happen (e.g. because the CDU wants to build a highway through the poor part of town, as it does right now). Demoscene is on the same list, but that doesn't mean UNESCO is forcing demoparties to run a certain way or forcing demosceners to make demos a certain way or that any of it became a museum. It just means the government shouldn't try to shut it down. Maybe it enables the government to make some official demo archive in the future or something, but what's wrong with that? A demo museum can exist at the same time as an active scene, just like museums about the past of Berlin can exist at the same time as Berlin exists, and the same in techno.
- rightbyte 3y agoIt must feel really lame for those active in a subculture to be put on some Unesco heritage list. Like, really really lame.
- samstave 3y agoThe moment I saw this title, Immediately checked to see where Techno Viking is from! This is wonderful.
- LAC-Tech 3y agoI'm somewhat into techno, and I cannot name a single artist from Berlin. If I zoom out further into EDM in general, I think of Paul van Dyk, but that's literally it. My knowledge is dated, but it does fall in the realm of "post cold war", so I'm wondering why I can't think of more if this scene was so important.