5 ms·

This happens way too often, and I'm genuinely curious why. The easy answer is that paranoid people with a vendetta say exactly this to throw guilt onto the oth

This happens way too often, and I'm genuinely curious why. The easy answer is that paranoid people with a vendetta say exactly this to throw guilt onto the other party. The hard answer is harder to swallow. What can we do about it?

gruez 3y ago
>This happens way too often 1. What some other recent occurrences? 2. What's the baseline rate of suicides we should expect for people in high stress positions, like being a whistleblower? How many people could plausibly be categorized as "whistleblowers"?
- silisili 3y ago
  I knew this would come up, but couldn't think of specifics other than I've seen it go by on social media seemingly yearly. I vividly remember one two or three years ago, of an Asian man I think in NYC who kept videoing the police calling them corrupt, telling the world if he died it was the police. Well, he died. The police said it wasn't the police. Sadly, I can't find this Googling. I'd say it's happened enough to become a meme. When people post controversial things about big companies or politicians, people will reply telling them to make a video to say they aren't suicidal. * Well some people aren't happy with my handwavy answer, so here are a few https://fresnopeoplesmedia.com/2016/01/2829/ https://fresnopeoplesmedia.com/2016/01/2829/ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/home-explodes-washington-dc-arlington-virginia-man-rcna128159 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/home-explodes-washingto... https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/who-was-james-yoo-paranoid-conspiracy-theorist-who-triggered-blast-at-his-virginia-home-presumed-dead-101701830291337.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/who-was-ja... (same case, some context) https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/jeffrey-epstein-s-final-days-smirking-he-said-i-am-not-suicidal-and-i-would-never-be-1.4737335 https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/jeffrey-eps...
  - publius_0xf3 3y ago
    The Asian victim you're thinking of is Sunny Sheu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sun-Ming_Sheu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sun-Ming_Sheu
    - silisili 3y ago
      Thanks! My timeline was way off. I tried everything to find this on Google but wasn't able.
  - tootie 3y ago
    There are accusations on social media all the time and 99% are complete BS. Be more skeptical.
    - silisili 3y ago
      I'd like to think I'm not a complete moron here(hopefully), and realize 'I saw it on social media' is a rather poor source. I'm referring to ones with real news articles and real videos. The only reason I mentioned it is because news sites rarely even report such info, and definitely don't show the videos. I'm not much for conspiracies, so my initial question was genuine. Are most or all of these people mentally ill and trying to scapegoat their enemy before offing themselves? It feels weird that it happens enough I was able to reference 4 other recent cases with 15 minutes of effort.
      - tootie 3y ago
        I can't speak to individual cases, it's usually impossible to determine from a news article. But realistically speaking, how many actual proven targeted assassinations of a white collar nature (ie whistleblowers) have happened in the US in the last 50 years? I think the answer is 0. The number of people who have antagonized big businesses or government and then died is pretty high, but also, everyone dies. Accusations of assassination are, in and of themselves, frequent weapons of dissenters. You can look at the cases of Vince Foster and Seth Rich as people whose deaths were deliberately exploited for political conspiracy mongering.
- bmer 3y ago
  One prominent one in recent memory is the Epstein "suicide". Aaron Swartz is another, although not so recent.
  - 4ggr0 3y ago
    John McAfee? EDIT: Not saying that I believe it or care, but even wiki mentions it. Thought it would fit the other mentions... > McAfee's death ignited speculation and conspiracy theories about the possibility that he was murdered. Such speculation was particularly fueled by a 2019 post McAfee made on Twitter that read, in part, “If I suicide myself, I didn't. I was whackd [sic].”[133] > Several times, McAfee claimed if he were ever found dead by hanging, it would mean he was murdered.[137] The day after his death, his lawyer told reporters that while he regularly maintained contact with McAfee in prison, there were no signs of suicidal intent.[138] McAfee's widow reaffirmed this position in her first public remarks since her husband's death, and also called for a "thorough" investigation.[139][140] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee#Death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee#Death
    - gruez 3y ago
      In this case there's at least the motive for Boeing to kill him. But in McAfee's case what's the motive for killing him? It seems like the only one going after him was the US (for tax evasion charges). He was already going to be extradited. Why kill him at that point?
      - 4ggr0 3y ago
        The only thing I can come up with is this tweet: https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/1137777348919681024 https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/113777734891968102... It mentions the CIA, that must've been it!!!! /s > I've collected files on corruption in governments. For the first time, I'm naming names and specifics. I'll begin with a corrupt CIA agent and two Bahamian officials. Coming today. If I'm arrested or disappear, 31+ terrabytes of incriminating data will be released to the press.
      - fragmede 3y ago
hello_computer 3y ago
It is the way of the world. Television, magazines, social media, etc do their best to conceal it, but it is always there in the background. It boils down to power. Boeing can make fighter jets, I can't. This is where the socialists err. "If we just take their money!" They'll make it all back within the year. "If we just had a law!" They'll buy legislators, bribe judges & law enforcement. If that doesn't work, they'll kill people. The public will clutch its pearls over this, for a while anyway, then promptly forget. The only solution is to remember and to retaliate on an individual basis (stop the wars, don't fly, shun execs, boycotts). And not just until they relent, because they are machines, and have no conscience. Do this until they hit the pink sheet, and then keep doing it.
- SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
  I'd say this is where the socialists are right, because they're actually saying we should take the means of production
  - hello_computer 3y ago
    The power is still there, as is the abuse. It just belongs to the government at that point. If anything, it is even worse then, since before we nominally had two entities with slightly different aims, and potential for a clash. Once it is all under the same umbrella, there is no longer even the appearance of checks-and-balances.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
drewcoo 3y ago
> This happens way too often, and I'm genuinely curious why. It's probably what you're paying attention to. There are lots of shocking occurrences that most people don't notice. Or don't want to notice. Death is among the things we'd rather not think about. Unseemly death more so. Consider how many US military deaths are suicide every year. https://dcas.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/app/summaryData/deaths/byYearManner https://dcas.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/app/summaryData/deaths/byYear... Or how many people are killed by police in the US every year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enfor... Or consider that suicides are more common than either firearm or car crash deaths. https://deadorkicking.com/death-statistics/us/per-year/ https://deadorkicking.com/death-statistics/us/per-year/
publius_0xf3 3y ago
There's another "easy" answer: friends and family of the deceased make up these claims, because they want to ensure a thorough investigation of any potential homicide to put their suspicions to rest and so make it look as suspicious and scandalous as possible in the public eye. Not saying that's what happened here, of course.

gruez 3y ago

>This happens way too often 1. What some other recent occurrences? 2. What's the baseline rate of suicides we should expect for people in high stress positions, like being a whistleblower? How many people could plausibly be categorized as "whistleblowers"?

silisili 3y ago
I knew this would come up, but couldn't think of specifics other than I've seen it go by on social media seemingly yearly. I vividly remember one two or three years ago, of an Asian man I think in NYC who kept videoing the police calling them corrupt, telling the world if he died it was the police. Well, he died. The police said it wasn't the police. Sadly, I can't find this Googling. I'd say it's happened enough to become a meme. When people post controversial things about big companies or politicians, people will reply telling them to make a video to say they aren't suicidal. * Well some people aren't happy with my handwavy answer, so here are a few https://fresnopeoplesmedia.com/2016/01/2829/ https://fresnopeoplesmedia.com/2016/01/2829/ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/home-explodes-washington-dc-arlington-virginia-man-rcna128159 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/home-explodes-washingto... https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/who-was-james-yoo-paranoid-conspiracy-theorist-who-triggered-blast-at-his-virginia-home-presumed-dead-101701830291337.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/who-was-ja... (same case, some context) https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/jeffrey-epstein-s-final-days-smirking-he-said-i-am-not-suicidal-and-i-would-never-be-1.4737335 https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/jeffrey-eps...
- publius_0xf3 3y ago
  The Asian victim you're thinking of is Sunny Sheu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sun-Ming_Sheu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sun-Ming_Sheu
  - silisili 3y ago
    Thanks! My timeline was way off. I tried everything to find this on Google but wasn't able.
- tootie 3y ago
  There are accusations on social media all the time and 99% are complete BS. Be more skeptical.
  - silisili 3y ago
    I'd like to think I'm not a complete moron here(hopefully), and realize 'I saw it on social media' is a rather poor source. I'm referring to ones with real news articles and real videos. The only reason I mentioned it is because news sites rarely even report such info, and definitely don't show the videos. I'm not much for conspiracies, so my initial question was genuine. Are most or all of these people mentally ill and trying to scapegoat their enemy before offing themselves? It feels weird that it happens enough I was able to reference 4 other recent cases with 15 minutes of effort.
    - tootie 3y ago
      I can't speak to individual cases, it's usually impossible to determine from a news article. But realistically speaking, how many actual proven targeted assassinations of a white collar nature (ie whistleblowers) have happened in the US in the last 50 years? I think the answer is 0. The number of people who have antagonized big businesses or government and then died is pretty high, but also, everyone dies. Accusations of assassination are, in and of themselves, frequent weapons of dissenters. You can look at the cases of Vince Foster and Seth Rich as people whose deaths were deliberately exploited for political conspiracy mongering.
bmer 3y ago
One prominent one in recent memory is the Epstein "suicide". Aaron Swartz is another, although not so recent.
- 4ggr0 3y ago
  John McAfee? EDIT: Not saying that I believe it or care, but even wiki mentions it. Thought it would fit the other mentions... > McAfee's death ignited speculation and conspiracy theories about the possibility that he was murdered. Such speculation was particularly fueled by a 2019 post McAfee made on Twitter that read, in part, “If I suicide myself, I didn't. I was whackd [sic].”[133] > Several times, McAfee claimed if he were ever found dead by hanging, it would mean he was murdered.[137] The day after his death, his lawyer told reporters that while he regularly maintained contact with McAfee in prison, there were no signs of suicidal intent.[138] McAfee's widow reaffirmed this position in her first public remarks since her husband's death, and also called for a "thorough" investigation.[139][140] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee#Death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee#Death
  - gruez 3y ago
    In this case there's at least the motive for Boeing to kill him. But in McAfee's case what's the motive for killing him? It seems like the only one going after him was the US (for tax evasion charges). He was already going to be extradited. Why kill him at that point?
    - 4ggr0 3y ago
      The only thing I can come up with is this tweet: https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/1137777348919681024 https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/113777734891968102... It mentions the CIA, that must've been it!!!! /s > I've collected files on corruption in governments. For the first time, I'm naming names and specifics. I'll begin with a corrupt CIA agent and two Bahamian officials. Coming today. If I'm arrested or disappear, 31+ terrabytes of incriminating data will be released to the press.
    - fragmede 3y ago

hello_computer 3y ago

It is the way of the world. Television, magazines, social media, etc do their best to conceal it, but it is always there in the background. It boils down to power. Boeing can make fighter jets, I can't. This is where the socialists err. "If we just take their money!" They'll make it all back within the year. "If we just had a law!" They'll buy legislators, bribe judges & law enforcement. If that doesn't work, they'll kill people. The public will clutch its pearls over this, for a while anyway, then promptly forget. The only solution is to remember and to retaliate on an individual basis (stop the wars, don't fly, shun execs, boycotts). And not just until they relent, because they are machines, and have no conscience. Do this until they hit the pink sheet, and then keep doing it.

SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
I'd say this is where the socialists are right, because they're actually saying we should take the means of production
- hello_computer 3y ago
  The power is still there, as is the abuse. It just belongs to the government at that point. If anything, it is even worse then, since before we nominally had two entities with slightly different aims, and potential for a clash. Once it is all under the same umbrella, there is no longer even the appearance of checks-and-balances.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

drewcoo 3y ago

> This happens way too often, and I'm genuinely curious why. It's probably what you're paying attention to. There are lots of shocking occurrences that most people don't notice. Or don't want to notice. Death is among the things we'd rather not think about. Unseemly death more so. Consider how many US military deaths are suicide every year. https://dcas.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/app/summaryData/deaths/byYearManner https://dcas.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/app/summaryData/deaths/byYear... Or how many people are killed by police in the US every year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enfor... Or consider that suicides are more common than either firearm or car crash deaths. https://deadorkicking.com/death-statistics/us/per-year/ https://deadorkicking.com/death-statistics/us/per-year/

publius_0xf3 3y ago

There's another "easy" answer: friends and family of the deceased make up these claims, because they want to ensure a thorough investigation of any potential homicide to put their suspicions to rest and so make it look as suspicious and scandalous as possible in the public eye. Not saying that's what happened here, of course.