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Yes when you have no concept of private property, environmental protection, or workers rights, stuff gets done faster. Comparisons to China aren’t helpful becau

Yes when you have no concept of private property, environmental protection, or workers rights, stuff gets done faster. Comparisons to China aren’t helpful because the US has chosen a fundamentally different path than China.

yorwba 3y ago
On the concept of private property, you may want to learn about "nail houses" that stick up and refuse to be hammered down to make room for new development: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holdout_(real_estate)#Nail_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holdout_(real_estate)#Nail_hou... Pictures: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%E9%92%89%E5%AD%90%E6%88%B7&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%E9%92%89%E5%AD%90%E6%88%B7&iax=im...
- Log_out_ 3y ago
  Eh, nail houses are usually built to extract compensation from the government. Which then sometimes is stolen by local officials who build around the property. Adv China has some videos on and in those.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 3y ago
    Some of those nail houses looked rather old, so I'm having difficulties to believe they've been built for the purpose of extracting compensation from the current government.
inference-lord 3y ago
I'm sorry but I just don't think that's a valid enough excuse because all of the things you mentioned are part of "getting a project done". Everything you mentioned should've been done as part of a study before embarking on the project if it wasn't deemed inviable then no money should've been committed in the first place?
panick21_ 3y ago
If you compare these actually objectivly then things arent that clear. Great, lots of environmental laws that ... prevent a train line that is objectivly great for the envoirnment. The simple fact is, China transportation system is better for the actual environment. Worker protection, ok, US worker protection globally known for being great? If im China a train-line is built 10x as fast, then even assuming higher insure rate, the overall project might be safer. Lets talk salary. Are US workers that work on CHSR better paid relative to other jobs in the economy compared to China? Did China use ultra cheap slave labor? Can you actually show that its the actual workers who benefit from this 10x cost upgrade? Private property isnt absolute. The US can take property if required. And happly did so and still does so for highway expantion. Japan on the other hand has less ability to do it and still manage to build trains. Im not sure how exactly this works in China. But just saying 'private property' isnt actually great analysis. Can you objectivly show that people on the path of CHSR were objectivly better of then those that had property along a line in China. And even if so, how much of the cost does that actually explain. You can look at any number of statistics in regards to infrastructure spending efficency. The US does then to be very high.
- inference-lord 3y ago
  Some very good refutations here...really interesting perspectives too. I like this one: Worker protection, ok, US worker protection globally known for being great? If im China a train-line is built 10x as fast, then even assuming higher insure rate, the overall project might be safer. I'd say absolutely no, it's not great, only when you want it to be for making an argument to support a narrative I guess :)

yorwba 3y ago

On the concept of private property, you may want to learn about "nail houses" that stick up and refuse to be hammered down to make room for new development: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holdout_(real_estate)#Nail_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holdout_(real_estate)#Nail_hou... Pictures: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%E9%92%89%E5%AD%90%E6%88%B7&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%E9%92%89%E5%AD%90%E6%88%B7&iax=im...

Log_out_ 3y ago
Eh, nail houses are usually built to extract compensation from the government. Which then sometimes is stolen by local officials who build around the property. Adv China has some videos on and in those.
- LargoLasskhyfv 3y ago
  Some of those nail houses looked rather old, so I'm having difficulties to believe they've been built for the purpose of extracting compensation from the current government.

inference-lord 3y ago

I'm sorry but I just don't think that's a valid enough excuse because all of the things you mentioned are part of "getting a project done". Everything you mentioned should've been done as part of a study before embarking on the project if it wasn't deemed inviable then no money should've been committed in the first place?

panick21_ 3y ago

If you compare these actually objectivly then things arent that clear. Great, lots of environmental laws that ... prevent a train line that is objectivly great for the envoirnment. The simple fact is, China transportation system is better for the actual environment. Worker protection, ok, US worker protection globally known for being great? If im China a train-line is built 10x as fast, then even assuming higher insure rate, the overall project might be safer. Lets talk salary. Are US workers that work on CHSR better paid relative to other jobs in the economy compared to China? Did China use ultra cheap slave labor? Can you actually show that its the actual workers who benefit from this 10x cost upgrade? Private property isnt absolute. The US can take property if required. And happly did so and still does so for highway expantion. Japan on the other hand has less ability to do it and still manage to build trains. Im not sure how exactly this works in China. But just saying 'private property' isnt actually great analysis. Can you objectivly show that people on the path of CHSR were objectivly better of then those that had property along a line in China. And even if so, how much of the cost does that actually explain. You can look at any number of statistics in regards to infrastructure spending efficency. The US does then to be very high.

inference-lord 3y ago
Some very good refutations here...really interesting perspectives too. I like this one: Worker protection, ok, US worker protection globally known for being great? If im China a train-line is built 10x as fast, then even assuming higher insure rate, the overall project might be safer. I'd say absolutely no, it's not great, only when you want it to be for making an argument to support a narrative I guess :)