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"every robot will suck compared to a human doing the same task, but that's what we compare it to every time" What about a factory robot, welding together a par

by lukan 3y ago

"every robot will suck compared to a human doing the same task, but that's what we compare it to every time" What about a factory robot, welding together a part of a car?

DoctorDabadedoo 3y ago
That would fall under the "automation" category: a very specialized customized application of robotics, doing the same set of tasks over and over, this is the kind of application where we can really see the power of robotics, but rest assured that countless hours were spent testing/improving/optimizing/safe guarding these workflows and after every section in an assembly line there will be manual inspection to flag for bad / missing weldings and potential service of the machinery involved.
- gertlex 3y ago
  Would "single purpose robot" be another reasonable term for welding robots? Just musing. The earlier "when compared to humans" statement definitely sounds pretty accurate to me, worded as "mutli-purpose robots currently always are less robust than humans at the same set of tasks" (or similar)
  - pixl97 3y ago
    >mutli-purpose robots currently always are less robust than humans at the same set of tasks Specialization has tradeoffs. Humans are very optimized generalists but very few of us become specialist at more than one thing. Even in that case a specialized machine/robot can be far faster, depending on the task of course. Of course humans have a lot of trade offs for their abilities as generalists... taking years to mature, requiring sleep, poor integration with computer systems are just some of them.
stonemetal12 3y ago
Those aren't robots they are industrial automation. :) As soon as it gets practical it stops being robotics.
- ska 3y ago
  > As soon as it gets practical it stops being robotics. This idea co-evolved in "AI"
- hugs 3y ago
  A potential corollary: As soon is gets practical, it also stops looking like a robot. Once you know how many degrees of freedom are truly needed to solve a problem, you start removing unnecessary parts in the design to lower cost and assembly complexity. Thus, once your cool new C-3PO has perfected the art of making toast, it's only a matter of time until you re-engineer it into looking like a toaster.
  - Anotheroneagain 3y ago
    No, I don't think so. We already have toasters, robots are for the tasks that can't be done by such simple machines.
    - lukan 3y ago
      A toaster cannot make a toast alone. It has to be inserted and removed and put on a plate. That's what I want a robot for (one day, after I am sure, it will not accidently toast me).
      - BobaFloutist 3y ago
        The question is, is this actually worth it over a toaster with climate-controlled toast-hopper that dispenses directly onto a clean plate from a plate dispenser. And if that feels too expensive and space-intensive for mere toast, just think of how much worse a robot would be!
    - DoctorDabadedoo 3y ago
      It's a matter of interface: people like the idea of humanoid robots because all the interfaces are already optimized for humans, thus if robots have that form factor they can use the same devices/tools that humans do and we wouldn't have to change the designs of these machines. The question is: how much information is lost in the process? How many layers of complexity we would add to a machine ensemble to be able to operate together at a satisfactory level? The machine learning corollary of understanding the whole picture of the problem/solution space and that leading to simpler solutions (because you don't have to optimize further) applies here. At the end of the day, cost, complexity and practicality will have the final word.

by lukan 3y ago

"every robot will suck compared to a human doing the same task, but that's what we compare it to every time" What about a factory robot, welding together a part of a car?

DoctorDabadedoo 3y ago

That would fall under the "automation" category: a very specialized customized application of robotics, doing the same set of tasks over and over, this is the kind of application where we can really see the power of robotics, but rest assured that countless hours were spent testing/improving/optimizing/safe guarding these workflows and after every section in an assembly line there will be manual inspection to flag for bad / missing weldings and potential service of the machinery involved.

gertlex 3y ago
Would "single purpose robot" be another reasonable term for welding robots? Just musing. The earlier "when compared to humans" statement definitely sounds pretty accurate to me, worded as "mutli-purpose robots currently always are less robust than humans at the same set of tasks" (or similar)
- pixl97 3y ago
  >mutli-purpose robots currently always are less robust than humans at the same set of tasks Specialization has tradeoffs. Humans are very optimized generalists but very few of us become specialist at more than one thing. Even in that case a specialized machine/robot can be far faster, depending on the task of course. Of course humans have a lot of trade offs for their abilities as generalists... taking years to mature, requiring sleep, poor integration with computer systems are just some of them.

stonemetal12 3y ago

Those aren't robots they are industrial automation. :) As soon as it gets practical it stops being robotics.

ska 3y ago
> As soon as it gets practical it stops being robotics. This idea co-evolved in "AI"
hugs 3y ago
A potential corollary: As soon is gets practical, it also stops looking like a robot. Once you know how many degrees of freedom are truly needed to solve a problem, you start removing unnecessary parts in the design to lower cost and assembly complexity. Thus, once your cool new C-3PO has perfected the art of making toast, it's only a matter of time until you re-engineer it into looking like a toaster.
- Anotheroneagain 3y ago
  No, I don't think so. We already have toasters, robots are for the tasks that can't be done by such simple machines.
  - lukan 3y ago
    A toaster cannot make a toast alone. It has to be inserted and removed and put on a plate. That's what I want a robot for (one day, after I am sure, it will not accidently toast me).
    - BobaFloutist 3y ago
      The question is, is this actually worth it over a toaster with climate-controlled toast-hopper that dispenses directly onto a clean plate from a plate dispenser. And if that feels too expensive and space-intensive for mere toast, just think of how much worse a robot would be!
  - DoctorDabadedoo 3y ago
    It's a matter of interface: people like the idea of humanoid robots because all the interfaces are already optimized for humans, thus if robots have that form factor they can use the same devices/tools that humans do and we wouldn't have to change the designs of these machines. The question is: how much information is lost in the process? How many layers of complexity we would add to a machine ensemble to be able to operate together at a satisfactory level? The machine learning corollary of understanding the whole picture of the problem/solution space and that leading to simpler solutions (because you don't have to optimize further) applies here. At the end of the day, cost, complexity and practicality will have the final word.