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>junk now being sold as luxury. That's always been the case though. There has always been junk marketing itself as "luxury" to milk the nouveau riche. It's not

>junk now being sold as luxury. That's always been the case though. There has always been junk marketing itself as "luxury" to milk the nouveau riche. It's not like real Coach bags utilize some magic leather that doesn't degrade just the same as the $200 leather purse you buy from a local artisan. It's not like the brick that Supreme sold was made of some sort of magical clay. The luxury purse companies don't burn their leftover product to protect some secret of Dr Who purses that are bigger or magically organized on the inside, but because the entire value of the brand is "I can afford this and you cannot" Luxury has ALWAYS been about signalling and displaying status and power. It's always about rubbing the prole's faces in their supposed supremacy. Remember, they have money because they are better than you, definitely not because there are systems and structures in place that make it easier to get rich for the already wealthy and connected. Unfortunately it seems so many people really struggle to understand that while quality often costs a lot, costing a lot does not imply quality in any way. If you can afford to spend oodles on marketing for your product, you probably aren't spending as much on quality as people assume you would.

JohnFen 3y ago
This is why I differentiate between "quality" and "luxury". Luxury goods are very often just expensive junk that people buy in order to signal that they have money. Quality goods are well-designed, well-made, etc. And you can't be sure about quality based on price.
nemothekid 3y ago
>It's not like real Coach bags utilize some magic leather that doesn't degrade just the same as the $200 leather purse you buy from a local artisan. Not sure why Coach was chosen for this example - I don't believe they are expensive; last I checked they were in the range of $200-500, which doesn't seem egregious as the actual luxury brands (ex. Hermes, where the entry level bags are $4,000). That said, I feel there is a real difference in quality at various price points, and focusing on the material ("magic leather") is wrong. When I'm paying a premium I'm usually looking for in the dimensions of construction, and usually that means paying an actual professional who may charge $100/hr, vs 19 year old in Bangladesh. The two might be using the same material but the price difference comes from the person assembling the item. The problem is you have a ton of companies (even "luxury" ones), that in an attempt to juice their stock price, have also focused on getting costs super low and are now using the same factories as junk brands but just slapping their logo on it. Even products of the same brand can vary wildly in quality depending even on the year it was made. I have jackets from "luxury" brands that I bought 10 years ago that still look brand new for thousands of dollars (and probably saved money in the long run), but buying a similar item new or even trying to replace it is impossible.
- decafninja 3y ago
  Some brands like Hermes, Rolex, etc. also require you to establish a “relationship” with them to acquire their most popular items (Birkin or Kelly bags, stainless steel watches). This entails a lengthy purchase history, and some schmoozing of your assigned sales associate doesn’t hurt either. Unless you’re some well known figure, just waltzing into a boutique with a suitcase full of cash won’t get you what you want to buy on your first visit. Other brands are catching on. I hear Porsche (or at least some dealerships) have started gatekeeping 911s this way.
  - brianwawok 3y ago
    And what’s funny is a budget model 3 you order online totally smokes the Porsche. It’s really just trying to sell a badge not a product.
    - decafninja 3y ago
      With all respect, 0-60 times is not the only reason why you buy a Porsche. A Toyota Corolla probably ticks more boxes for the average person than any Porsche if cars are not your thing.
    - VHRanger 3y ago
      Typical American thinking. Your model 3 can't handle a corner. The reason car enthusiasts like Porsches is that they handle particularly well.
      - imp0cat 3y ago
        But that's not his point. He's right about the badge.
        decafninja 3y ago
        Nope, he’s not. Or at least not entirely. Even their models that share platforms with “lesser” brands in the corporate stable go through a lot to differentiate them. But if you don’t care about cars or enjoy driving, then all of it is a moot point and probably meaningless to you, and you might as well enjoy a Toyota Camry and call it a day.
doctorpangloss 3y ago
> degrade just the same as the $200 leather purse you buy from a local artisan. Where are there local artisans selling leather purses they made for $200? Are you sure you don't mean $4,000? Surely if you are buying a $200 hand made purse, it was made by hand in a low labor cost country and relabeled.
- bombcar 3y ago
  https://saddlebackleather.com/everyday-purse/ https://saddlebackleather.com/everyday-purse/ is a bit over $200, and doesn't hide that it's made in Mexico (though they do use machines and tooling to process the leather so perhaps it's not "hand made").
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I don't have a purse. (Well, I have something from Mountainsmith I've had for decades that a friend calls a man purse. I'm sure it's been in dozens of countries.) But I have a front-pocket wallet/business card holder from Saddlebackleather that wasn't particularly expensive and will probably last as long as I need it to unless I lose it.
  - tiltowait 3y ago
    I’ve got one of their backpacks. It’s very nice. Heavy, though, at around five pounds. Sadly it almost never gets any use, because I rarely have need for a backpack. I should have bought some luggage instead. Like the other poster, I also have a couple of their wallets. They’re simple but obviously high quality. They don’t feel as slick as the Coach wallet I was given as a gift, but I have no doubt they will hold up longer.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Leather is actually not a great material for a backpack or an outdoor (non-dressy) shoulder bag from a practical perspective in the 21st century. Nylon and related synthetics is a lot more practical. If you gave me a leather outdoor bag I'd probably thank you nicely and stick it in a closet or sell it. I do like leather wallets though I almost exclusively use small front pocket ones these days because of sciatica and minimal needs for carrying either cash or a lot of cards.
jerkstate 3y ago
Coach is probably a bad example here because they are known for using high quality leather, and they are also among the less expensive "designer" brands (there are Coach leather purses in the $200-500 range, wheras you are looking at $2000-5000 for a brand like Louis Vuitton - also high quality leather, but not worlds apart from Coach). There is a huge amount of variability in quality of leather, from top grain to full grain to split grain, to "genuine" and "bonded." In general though I agree with your point that it's possible to get the same quality as a luxury brand for cheaper, and luxury brands are about signalling, but it's a continuum. There are also plenty of "luxury" bag brands in the $200-500 range that use crummy leather and you'd be way better off with Coach (or a local artisan like you mentioned.)
- TylerE 3y ago
  The most important thing to remember that the strongest thing they can say about genuine leather is that it isn’t fake. Even that’s debatable.

JohnFen 3y ago

This is why I differentiate between "quality" and "luxury". Luxury goods are very often just expensive junk that people buy in order to signal that they have money. Quality goods are well-designed, well-made, etc. And you can't be sure about quality based on price.

nemothekid 3y ago

>It's not like real Coach bags utilize some magic leather that doesn't degrade just the same as the $200 leather purse you buy from a local artisan. Not sure why Coach was chosen for this example - I don't believe they are expensive; last I checked they were in the range of $200-500, which doesn't seem egregious as the actual luxury brands (ex. Hermes, where the entry level bags are $4,000). That said, I feel there is a real difference in quality at various price points, and focusing on the material ("magic leather") is wrong. When I'm paying a premium I'm usually looking for in the dimensions of construction, and usually that means paying an actual professional who may charge $100/hr, vs 19 year old in Bangladesh. The two might be using the same material but the price difference comes from the person assembling the item. The problem is you have a ton of companies (even "luxury" ones), that in an attempt to juice their stock price, have also focused on getting costs super low and are now using the same factories as junk brands but just slapping their logo on it. Even products of the same brand can vary wildly in quality depending even on the year it was made. I have jackets from "luxury" brands that I bought 10 years ago that still look brand new for thousands of dollars (and probably saved money in the long run), but buying a similar item new or even trying to replace it is impossible.

decafninja 3y ago
Some brands like Hermes, Rolex, etc. also require you to establish a “relationship” with them to acquire their most popular items (Birkin or Kelly bags, stainless steel watches). This entails a lengthy purchase history, and some schmoozing of your assigned sales associate doesn’t hurt either. Unless you’re some well known figure, just waltzing into a boutique with a suitcase full of cash won’t get you what you want to buy on your first visit. Other brands are catching on. I hear Porsche (or at least some dealerships) have started gatekeeping 911s this way.
- brianwawok 3y ago
  And what’s funny is a budget model 3 you order online totally smokes the Porsche. It’s really just trying to sell a badge not a product.
  - decafninja 3y ago
    With all respect, 0-60 times is not the only reason why you buy a Porsche. A Toyota Corolla probably ticks more boxes for the average person than any Porsche if cars are not your thing.
  - VHRanger 3y ago
    Typical American thinking. Your model 3 can't handle a corner. The reason car enthusiasts like Porsches is that they handle particularly well.
    - imp0cat 3y ago
      But that's not his point. He's right about the badge.
      - decafninja 3y ago
        Nope, he’s not. Or at least not entirely. Even their models that share platforms with “lesser” brands in the corporate stable go through a lot to differentiate them. But if you don’t care about cars or enjoy driving, then all of it is a moot point and probably meaningless to you, and you might as well enjoy a Toyota Camry and call it a day.

doctorpangloss 3y ago

> degrade just the same as the $200 leather purse you buy from a local artisan. Where are there local artisans selling leather purses they made for $200? Are you sure you don't mean $4,000? Surely if you are buying a $200 hand made purse, it was made by hand in a low labor cost country and relabeled.

bombcar 3y ago
https://saddlebackleather.com/everyday-purse/ https://saddlebackleather.com/everyday-purse/ is a bit over $200, and doesn't hide that it's made in Mexico (though they do use machines and tooling to process the leather so perhaps it's not "hand made").
- ghaff 3y ago
  I don't have a purse. (Well, I have something from Mountainsmith I've had for decades that a friend calls a man purse. I'm sure it's been in dozens of countries.) But I have a front-pocket wallet/business card holder from Saddlebackleather that wasn't particularly expensive and will probably last as long as I need it to unless I lose it.
- tiltowait 3y ago
  I’ve got one of their backpacks. It’s very nice. Heavy, though, at around five pounds. Sadly it almost never gets any use, because I rarely have need for a backpack. I should have bought some luggage instead. Like the other poster, I also have a couple of their wallets. They’re simple but obviously high quality. They don’t feel as slick as the Coach wallet I was given as a gift, but I have no doubt they will hold up longer.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Leather is actually not a great material for a backpack or an outdoor (non-dressy) shoulder bag from a practical perspective in the 21st century. Nylon and related synthetics is a lot more practical. If you gave me a leather outdoor bag I'd probably thank you nicely and stick it in a closet or sell it. I do like leather wallets though I almost exclusively use small front pocket ones these days because of sciatica and minimal needs for carrying either cash or a lot of cards.

jerkstate 3y ago

Coach is probably a bad example here because they are known for using high quality leather, and they are also among the less expensive "designer" brands (there are Coach leather purses in the $200-500 range, wheras you are looking at $2000-5000 for a brand like Louis Vuitton - also high quality leather, but not worlds apart from Coach). There is a huge amount of variability in quality of leather, from top grain to full grain to split grain, to "genuine" and "bonded." In general though I agree with your point that it's possible to get the same quality as a luxury brand for cheaper, and luxury brands are about signalling, but it's a continuum. There are also plenty of "luxury" bag brands in the $200-500 range that use crummy leather and you'd be way better off with Coach (or a local artisan like you mentioned.)

TylerE 3y ago
The most important thing to remember that the strongest thing they can say about genuine leather is that it isn’t fake. Even that’s debatable.