3 ms·

There are only a handful of companies in the U.S. willing to pay 200k+ for contract programmers, and these invariably involve highly specialized needs. And if t

There are only a handful of companies in the U.S. willing to pay 200k+ for contract programmers, and these invariably involve highly specialized needs. And if they're in a specialized niche, then their numbers and experience aren't relevant outside of that niche. Note that the parent poster was saying he is a "low level" programmer, meaning close to the hardware, which is niche role. If you know someone claiming to make 200k+ as a non-specialized programming contractor, they're probably just making numbers up to impress the internet. Regular (non-tech) companies don't pay those sorts of rates to non-specialized programmers, and startups can't afford those rates. That leaves primarily FAANG or large tech companies, in which case YOE is irrelevant; they hire based on pedigree and who you know.

dnissley 3y ago
200k is just 100/hr, no? Seems like there are many more than just a handful of companies willing to pay that rate
- gamblor956 3y ago
  I know a lot of people who claim to make 200k+ as contract programmers doing vaguely web-related stuff. But as a tax guy, I generally see the actual financial data (i.e., the actual 1099-reportable payments), and I rarely see anyone who actually does make 200k+ as a contractor. And all of those positions are always niche positions, and almost all of these roles are for less than a year: meaning: the 200k is the amount they would make if the role lasted a full year. So if they're making 200k+, it involves multiple gigs, which is a very different situation from making 200k+ at a single gig.
  - karmajunkie 3y ago
    yeah when i was contracting i based my assumptions on half-time employment… so to make 200/yr, i would need to charge 200/hr. over five years that was pretty close to an accurate measure.
  - birdlogic 3y ago
    I’ve done this for the past 3 years - two startup clients for 20 hrs/week each, just over 500k total pretax. Mostly staff-eng work, lots of independence, got to run some projects, pretty indistinguishable from full-time except for fewer meetings and no health care or equity. I’ve loved it - and so have the startups - they get a staff-level eng for the cost of a mid-level, just for half the hours. I think there’s value there. Just wanted to put out a data point that it is possible and enjoyable.
    - pdimitar 3y ago
      Are you open to discuss how did you do it, here or over email? I don't have a network and I wouldn't even know where to start. I am quite capable and this has been recognized by people in the past but I am basically stealth mode (never invested in blogs, proper LinkedIn presence or any other really) so I am wondering how does a capable senior dev finally get to the big bucks?
pdimitar 3y ago
Thank you for the perspective, I admit I never thought of that. My life and career being the disaster that they were/are, I never stopped to think about specializing for more than a minute, 5-10 times maximum. Always seemed extremely risky because I also have zero network. Even if I found a very lucrative job and stayed there for 2-3 years the change inevitably comes at one point (especially post COVID) and then if I lose the job I'll be out of luck and severely f_cked. Hence I always tried to cast a wide net. I started regretting that decision in the last few years though; being treated as an interchangeable cog even if you are the best programmer in the team left a lot of marks on my mental health and I wish the world became a little bit more kind but alas.
randomopining 3y ago
Big banks easily pay 200-300k
- gamblor956 3y ago
  Sure, for niche roles, but not for web developers or app developers. If you want to make 200k+ at a big bank, it's because you have specialized programming experience/skills.
  - randomopining 3y ago
    No I believe for all standard app engineers in HCOL locations like NYC metro and SF metro. Top banks like GS I think are even a bit more. But WF etc are 200k-280k, confirmed.
    - gamblor956 3y ago
      You are talking about niche positions. They aren't paying their front-end or developers 200k+. I do know a number of bank developers making 300k+. They work on the boring, unsexy backend stuff that makes the bank run. Each of them provides the equivalent value of about 100 front-end developers.
      - randomopining 3y ago
        Hmm ok. Because I know first hand that senior developers can get 220-300k easy. These aren't even owners or super niche. Just ~10yoe, and working on jira tickets nothinig wild.
- pdimitar 3y ago
  What do they need to pay such salaries?
  - randomopining 3y ago
    Not sure but I guess because that is the going rate now for a Senior Dev in a HCOL area like NYC.

dnissley 3y ago

200k is just 100/hr, no? Seems like there are many more than just a handful of companies willing to pay that rate

gamblor956 3y ago
I know a lot of people who claim to make 200k+ as contract programmers doing vaguely web-related stuff. But as a tax guy, I generally see the actual financial data (i.e., the actual 1099-reportable payments), and I rarely see anyone who actually does make 200k+ as a contractor. And all of those positions are always niche positions, and almost all of these roles are for less than a year: meaning: the 200k is the amount they would make if the role lasted a full year. So if they're making 200k+, it involves multiple gigs, which is a very different situation from making 200k+ at a single gig.
- karmajunkie 3y ago
  yeah when i was contracting i based my assumptions on half-time employment… so to make 200/yr, i would need to charge 200/hr. over five years that was pretty close to an accurate measure.
- birdlogic 3y ago
  I’ve done this for the past 3 years - two startup clients for 20 hrs/week each, just over 500k total pretax. Mostly staff-eng work, lots of independence, got to run some projects, pretty indistinguishable from full-time except for fewer meetings and no health care or equity. I’ve loved it - and so have the startups - they get a staff-level eng for the cost of a mid-level, just for half the hours. I think there’s value there. Just wanted to put out a data point that it is possible and enjoyable.
  - pdimitar 3y ago
    Are you open to discuss how did you do it, here or over email? I don't have a network and I wouldn't even know where to start. I am quite capable and this has been recognized by people in the past but I am basically stealth mode (never invested in blogs, proper LinkedIn presence or any other really) so I am wondering how does a capable senior dev finally get to the big bucks?

pdimitar 3y ago

Thank you for the perspective, I admit I never thought of that. My life and career being the disaster that they were/are, I never stopped to think about specializing for more than a minute, 5-10 times maximum. Always seemed extremely risky because I also have zero network. Even if I found a very lucrative job and stayed there for 2-3 years the change inevitably comes at one point (especially post COVID) and then if I lose the job I'll be out of luck and severely f_cked. Hence I always tried to cast a wide net. I started regretting that decision in the last few years though; being treated as an interchangeable cog even if you are the best programmer in the team left a lot of marks on my mental health and I wish the world became a little bit more kind but alas.

randomopining 3y ago

Big banks easily pay 200-300k

gamblor956 3y ago
Sure, for niche roles, but not for web developers or app developers. If you want to make 200k+ at a big bank, it's because you have specialized programming experience/skills.
- randomopining 3y ago
  No I believe for all standard app engineers in HCOL locations like NYC metro and SF metro. Top banks like GS I think are even a bit more. But WF etc are 200k-280k, confirmed.
  - gamblor956 3y ago
    You are talking about niche positions. They aren't paying their front-end or developers 200k+. I do know a number of bank developers making 300k+. They work on the boring, unsexy backend stuff that makes the bank run. Each of them provides the equivalent value of about 100 front-end developers.
    - randomopining 3y ago
      Hmm ok. Because I know first hand that senior developers can get 220-300k easy. These aren't even owners or super niche. Just ~10yoe, and working on jira tickets nothinig wild.
pdimitar 3y ago
What do they need to pay such salaries?
- randomopining 3y ago
  Not sure but I guess because that is the going rate now for a Senior Dev in a HCOL area like NYC.